The cheap frame from the discount store
has unsafe hangers and it’s not sealed
and it’s barely held together by cheap
staples and the thin, chipped glass
inside is a death trap in disguise.
I've spend a good deal of time today reading responses from other posters on this thread today. I think I can bucket them into three groups:
"This is too expensive"
This represents the bulk of the responses: people who are used to buying cheap discount store frame you describe. The 80% case.
"Are you kidding? This is cheap!"
People like me, who represent most of the other 20%. I can appreciate the $300 and the $900 designs you reference, but I'm not willing to pay either amount. I'm not framing an Ansel Adams or a Henri Cartier-Bresson print.
"This doesn't stand up to my expectations"
As far as I can tell, only you in this thread. That's not to say that your viewpoint is invalid. Far from it. But, instead, it fails to recognize that there is a meaningfully large mid-market that doesn't want a $10 death-trap, but is also unwilling to spend as much as it would cost to buy a used Hasselblad[0] on framing a print.
Getting that personalized, one-on-one, high-end experience would be fantastic. But it's also clearly not an experience that would work well with cutting out the middleman. Especially when that middleman is incapable of providing the MFA-requiring experience you eloquently described.
[0] No really, my Hasselblad 501CM, plus an 80mm ƒ/2.8 Zeiss Planar lens, plus a film back cost me about $950 earlier this year. They're all in great shape, and produce the best photographs I've gotten from any camera I've ever owned.
I don't know what your market will be, do you? Is $900 for a picture frame expensive? Depends what we're framing, how big is it and how long will it take to build? Are we framing a Celtics jersey with a cigar and some tickets? I always billed six hours of labor for shadowboxes. Not many framers do big shadowboxes. Then you're talking about cutting a custom jersey insert out of foam, pinning the sleeves just right (two more inserts) then jig up the cigar. This was years ago but my shadowboxes were usually in the $600-$700 range. Obviously bigger frames cost more, especially if you get the museum glass and spare no expense.
I'm not a camera expert but I bet your camera was made in a factory, not designed to your exact specifications, just for you. Your camera wasn't assembled in the US either. Nice camera though.
What you wrote about wanting an app to do this, it reminds me of my freshman year in art school when I was so excited about programming games, computer graphics, 3D models, the demo scene, etc. It was really difficult to get out of my comfort zone which was all this technology I grew up with. I eventually got into non-objective abstraction and sculpture and oil painting and realized it was really satisfying to learn from these dead artists who had so much to offer me. Anyway, I don't know you, maybe we're nothing alike but I hope you talk with more picture framers and learn as much about picture framing as you can before you become this huge company crushing artists out of business.
I hope you talk with more picture framers
and learn as much about picture framing
as you can before you become this huge
company crushing artists out of business.
I'm not the OP. Levleframes.com isn't my website.
And I'm not questioning the value of paying $900 for framing in some cases. But, I think it's ridiculous to assume that someone who bought a poster reproduction of some Klimt painting would spend $900 for a custom frame.
I'm not a camera expert but I bet your
camera was made in a factory, not designed
to your exact specifications, just for you.
This is true. And not particularly relevant. A custom camera designed just for me wouldn't be able to take advantage of the rich ecosystem of V series lenses, backs, and accessories that I can use. Incidentally, every film camera is slightly different, which is why tutorials like this exist: http://stephengrote.com/teaching/courses/files/storage/Zone%...
Your camera wasn't assembled in the US
either. Nice camera though.
How is this relevant?
Anyway, I don't know you, maybe we're nothing
alike but I hope you talk with more picture
framers and learn as much about picture
framing as you can before you become this
huge company crushing artists out of business.
Again: this isn't my website. And a framer charging $900 will either be able to differentiate their services from an $80 frame ordered off the Internet and a $20 frame bought at Ikea, and their business will do fine, or they won't.
Sorry, I assumed you were the OP because you were talking about the market, etc. So I was writing in Levleframes general direction ;-)
I agree, he could succeed with the right marketing, especially with a lot of tutorials for the DIY market.
As far as a Klimt poster, it's surprising what people spend to frame posters. Ordering online is nothing new and tons of people order posters online, but people don't frame online because it's time-consuming work that takes practice and a lot can go wrong. You would be surprised how many people have a lot of difficulty using a ruler! Even professional framers. Which leads to returns & recuts for this website. Did the customer drop the frame, did the moulding warp from humidity? How do you know?
If you brought me a poster and you're not telling me you're on a budget, I'd work with you to choose frames for you and the art and depending on your level of involvement, I'd pick colors that we both agree look awesome. Often cost is the last thing discussed. Some stores, maybe you're spending more time to dial back a design to save money. It's like selling anything, what seems like a lot to me is affordable to somebody else. There are ways to save money but that's a long tangent.
Cost mostly depends on the scale, the quality of glass and your taste. Some frames are just expensive because of the labor involved, the country it's from, etc. You can also go crazy with fabric mats, stacking fillets, raising/floating elements and on and on. For prints 20" wide (just reading your website) that's going to be more affordable because you're using smaller sheets of glass and standard mats. But maybe with medium format film, those prints could be huge. Larger scale means larger glass, oversize 60" mats, shipping gets more expensive, everything is more difficult and cost goes up exponentially.
There's no typical scenario, that's why custom framing is so interesting. A microchip manufacturer could spend the same framing chip designs as the cigar bar framing ads for urinals.
Getting that personalized, one-on-one, high-end experience would be fantastic. But it's also clearly not an experience that would work well with cutting out the middleman. Especially when that middleman is incapable of providing the MFA-requiring experience you eloquently described.
[0] No really, my Hasselblad 501CM, plus an 80mm ƒ/2.8 Zeiss Planar lens, plus a film back cost me about $950 earlier this year. They're all in great shape, and produce the best photographs I've gotten from any camera I've ever owned.