I appreciate the sentiment of the article, but I hate that our culture plays up this idea that being a good parent means being there for all the arbitrary "milestones." I honestly don't remember if my dad was there or not on my first day of school, etc. I sure as hell remember that he called me when I got home from school every day to make sure I was okay and not getting into trouble.
You're not going to be able to convince corporate America that a kid's dance recital is more important than a client meeting. All you'll do by stressing that dance recital is make busy parents feel bad for not being able to live up to some ideal, or discourage ambitious people from having kids because they think they can't be good parents too. You'll get a lot further trying to push back on ideas like "face time" or competing on who can take the least vacation. Don't have much work? Go home at 2 and take your kid to a museum. That's just as valuable as your being there for an arbitrary "milestone."
Right. A survey showed that parents usually expect that children want more time with them instead of work, but that that's not usually what children want:
"One of Galinsky's more surprising findings centered around a question she posed to both children and parents: "If you were granted one wish to change the way your mother's/your father's work affects your life, what would that wish be?" Some 56 percent of parents anticipated that their children would want more time with their parents and for their parents to spend less time at work, yet only 10 percent of the children actually wanted more time with their mothers and only 16 percent wanted more time with their fathers. A far larger proportion, 34 percent, wished that their mothers would be less stressed and less tired, and 28 percent wished this about their fathers." - http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2008/05/listen_to_the_c....
He worked 2nd and 3rd shift for stretches until I was in 4th grade, then got a management position and put in 60+ hour weeks until he retired. While going to school at night. While occasionally traveling for work.
When he had to go in on weekends, which was often, he'd bring me and I'd sit on a spare souped up 386 in his office while we both worked in relative silence. I remember those times as fondly as some kids probably remember tossing a ball around with their dads. (It helped that we shared interests in sci-fi, movies, and computers.)
A stable, care-free life was one of the greatest gifts my parents gave me but it came at a cost - even mom worked 40+ hours a week, me and sis were latch-key kids, we never went on summer trips, dad missed "milestones", etc. Yeah, first world problems, but people (unbelievably) complain about this stuff.
I know people who saw their parents all the time - but moved around, went to public school (which were not good where I'm from), and whose parents fought about minor bills all the time or worse - whose parents now cannot afford retirement.
tl;dr imo providing a stable life for your kids > spending lots of time with them
Everything in life is kind of arbitrary. We apply meaning to events. There are certain events that we apply special meaning to. The first day of school is bigger for parents than kids. Its a sign of their child growing up. But I had a friend who played basketball. His dad never came to see him play through about 100 HS games because of work. To him these were milestones, and to this day (20 years later) he holds this against his dad.
Kids are made to care. I don't remember my graduation from grade school being a big deal -- I certainly don't remember having a ceremony and I doubt that there was any sort of fanfare surrounding it. This June I went to the neighbor's 5th grade graduation and it lasted as long as my high school graduation in the early 90s. Not saying it's wrong, but it's a shift in our values as a culture. Part of it is that parents, especially dads, are expected to be more engaged in their kids' lives than their fathers were. But I think that part of it also plays into the whole helicopter-parent trend, making a big deal of out achievements that everyone should reasonably be expected to attain.
On the other hand, those milestones are surely not the only time that this father missed with his daughter, they were the symptoms of a larger problem, so I'm not sure it's really relevant.
True. But it's hard to predict or script which moments make a lasting impression on a child. Speaking only for myself the moments I remember most vividly don't even register with my parents when I bring them up. But the interactions are forever etched in my mind.
Having a child of my own nowI remember that. I remember that the world is chaotic, unpredictable and in order to make memories, even one you first have to be present. This bite me in the ass when my wife reminds me of it at 5am when my second grade daughter wants to play games or draw pictures with one of us.
What if the kid cares because the culture makes a big deal out of it? IMHO, kids should just be kids, not have all this organized, scheduled shit anyway.
Since my parents were working all the time, extracurricular activities were usually just not possible because no one was there to drive.
The result was that I spent my grade-, middle-, and high-school years (especially summers) simply loafing around - biking around the hood, kicking it with other kids, walking to the library, the mall or arcade, catching a bus downtown, futzing around on the computer and learning to program, walking, reading, thinking, etc.
Magical times...
People really only have 18 years guaranteed obligation-free, why rob them of that?
You can do more than 18 years obligation free. It's just people want more money.
I'd argue we have it backwards. More free time as we get older and more structure when we're younger. Not 100% scheduled, but not loafing around all day.
Where was an article not too long ago on HN about the benefits of "unstructured play" and how we are creating much more stressed out and a lot less adjusted kids by denying them that historic social practice of just figuring out their social place within their social group, independent of the social position of their parents.
That's the point the dance recital is an indicator of the problem. It's not about earning parent points for achieving "milestones"
If you cannot attend functions that happen at 7, or come in to work an hour early to see your kid at the bus stop, you're not leaving at two to look at dinosaurs either.
Depends on the job. I can't count on making any given event at 7 pm. But over a month, I could bail at 2 pm several times. Many busy jobs have gaps, they just often don't line up with arbitrary events.
For those that don't follow the bond markets, his former company, Pimco, would be the Google or Microsoft of bond traders.
Tangentially, Bill Gross, the other pillar of Pimco just announced today that he was leaving as well.
Pimco's funds are reportedly being hammered with withdraws. Estimates are that they could loose up to 30% of their managed assets, and with almost 2 trillion managed that's market moving news!!
Imagine you are at Google and in the span of a few months both Larry and then Sergey unexpectedly announce they are leaving.
> Mr El-Erian used to leave home for work at 4.30am each morning
I always wondered why someone who trades in the markets would live out West where you need to be ready at 6:30 for the market open.
I'm guessing someone has a smart ass comment lined up about how being around for your kids should be the default, or how if they made 100 million in a year that they'd quit too, but I think articles like this are good, in that it reminds hard charging people to stop and look around once in a while.
> if they made 100 million in a year that they'd quit too
That is certainly one option that affords one more time at home. On the other hand, quitting or even changing your schedule is probably impossible for a good share of the American labor force. There is however a sector of the work force that's in the middle of these two extremes, and is one which many HNers fall into. Many of us can -- and many do -- simply take a less demanding job or cut back one's responsibilities at the current job. Many times this can be done without any loss of pay and hence impediment to an otherwise comfortable lifestyle. However, this greatly reduces one's chances of climbing the corporate ladder, or making a huge exit on a startup, or whatever your motivation to work long hours may be. So I agree, it's a good article, because while money affords some near-total freedom and hamstrings others, it is not the primary factor for a lot of people who may not otherwise stop to seriously think of taking a step back.
I always wondered why someone who trades in the markets would live out West where you need to be ready at 6:30 for the market open
The equity market opens at 9:30 Eastern which, as you said, requires being ready by 6:30 Pacific. Since we're discussing bond markets though, you should be aware that the markets we trade in typically start trading by 8:00 am Eastern. We primarily trade via Bloomberg FIET, MarketAxess and TradeWeb. We trade about $4 billion per day.
The head of fixed income at my investment bank chews out any IT person that is unaware of this fact. It's his pet peeve after being told for decades by IT people, "What's the big deal if the system wasn't up until 9 am? The market doesn't open until 9:30!"
Pimco has roughly $2 trillion in assets under management which makes them one of the largest investment managers in the world. Time Magazine says that Pimco Total Return was the United States' biggest fixed income fund.
i leave for work at 5:30am and I have two kids. Its really to be at work a full day so I can leave at 3. I value spending dinner time and getting my kids to bed more then breakfast time with them.
Then again I'm sure he's not leaving the office at 3.. probably is there till 7 or 8
I have a hard time believing this is why El-Erian really left the company. The WSJ's revelations this week that PIMCO and Gross have under scrutiny by the SEC for over a year suggest that El-Erian got out while he could preserve his reputation.
Yeah... my assumption when an executive says they are leaving to "spend more time with my family" is still that they were asked to leave and are trying to be graceful about it.
(I mean, I know nothing about bond markets. It could very well be sincere in this case. I'm just saying, my immediate impression, when a top person says they are leaving to spend more time with their family, is to extend my sympathy at, you know, getting canned)
Maybe it is just my experience at Yahoo in the mid aughts. It seemed like every three months, a top exec was "leaving to spend more time with my family"
I mean, being graceful about getting pushed out is a good thing for all involved, and it seems like the leaving letters are getting more convincing lately, which is fine, but... yeah, I'm still not buying it.
I also found the story too pat. The list of 22 events seemed like an odd thing for a kid to be compiling on their own initiative. I observe that kids of that age try to normalize their circumstances, not compile lists of why they are off.
My niece will write songs or letters and has even written lists of things she doesn't like that her parents do... She usually shares it with grandma before going to her dad about it.
I think it's obvious that rising interest rates are bad for the bond market? I am not an expert and could be wrong, but I think that's one of the basic bits of the bond market that someone like me is capable of understanding.
The special knowledge would be knowledge of when interest rates will rise... and if you had that knowledge... god damn, you could make some money.
The yield curve is not currently negative... but it still seems pretty flat to a non-expert like me[1] - which I believe signals a belief (on the part of people buying bonds) that rates are going to stay low for a long time. (and that the economy is going to be shit for a long time.)
It's definitely one of the better crafted "spend more time with the family" announcements.
Barring other evidence, there's no particular reason to believe this is different than any other executive who is being encouraged to resign from their organization.
I'll be honest, I'm not even in a demanding job and but my wife and I are both full time employed and I have been struggling with this (our little ones are not even school age yet). Personally handing my child over to another for raising is and has been difficult, I'm not sure whether it's something I'll continue to do, or if it's something I'll regret when I'm older. Time will tell.
Recently spoke with my boss, and for a few months I am going to be on a part work from home and part work from work, it was really nice they were willing to work this out, still don't know how I'll feel come january, but this gives me a little more time to make that decision.
> hopefully, as companies give more attention to the importance of work-life balance, more and more people will be in a better position to decide and act more holistically on what’s important to them.
I see no signs of the US economy rewarding life-balanced underproducers, or of companies altruistically shouldering this moral burden. Spare time is not a right, quality time is a luxury. Every individual chooses how much time they are willing to trade for success/compensation. It will be difficult to convince companies and consumers that this is their problem.
This is a shortsighted view, I think. More spare time can mean more novel inputs for your mind to process, which results in more creativity, which results in better performance in (some) jobs. Certainly in programming jobs.
I think we'd be a more productive nation if we all took a 1-month summer break, like they do in some European countries.
My parents didn't attend a majority of events for me, for example, I told my mom in 12th grade (in India) - you are going to miss never ever having attended a PTA meeting for me, and the last one is coming up, so you better go. Then she went. I remember coming 70th in a Geography olympiad in my city (New Delhi, current population 27M), and me going alone to receive the award. All the way to my Convocation, Masters from IITD, which (bloody hell) even I didn't attend - I was too busy working to fly back out - (this one I sometimes feel bad about). Net net, my parents never attended shit BUT most importantly I don't feel bad about it; ever.
On the other hand, my wife's dad is a busy industrialist, even he never attended anything. Her mom did though. Her view of it is completely different. She feels very very bad about her dad not being there, to the point that she forces me to attend all of our kids school events, even when I think some are not that important.
I guess it depends on your personality and how you respond to things around you.
Walking away from it all seems fairly easy when you're making $100m+ per year and you don't have to worry about making ends meet.
That work-life balance is sometimes a bit more of a razor's edge (depending on industry) -- tilt a bit too much towards the "life" side and you may suddenly find yourself with a bunch of unexpected free time to spend with family.
The comments on this are pretty depressing. I'm hoping they're from folks without kids. This has very little to do with efficiency and optimization.
This is probably an unpopular perspective but here goes anyways.
If you've got kids and you're trying to figure out what they'll remember and not remember in order to maximize some theoretical value -- I urge you to take a step back and look at what really matters. It's too easy to get caught up in life. Especially in the US. And even more in Silicon Valley.
You won't ever look back and wish you spent less time with your kids. Doesn't always matter if they remember it or not.
I truly appreciate and agree with this article. If we are not giving time to our loved ones and only lost in this corporate world, what is the sense of making money? For whom we are working night and day? It would be selfishness if our priority is only our work. For me, family is the most important thing than comes your work. Read this short story and I think it will affect you guys too.
One day, an expert in time management was speaking to a group of business students and, to drive home a point, used an illustration those students will never forget. As he stood in front of the group of high-powered over-achievers he said, "Okay, time for a quiz" and he pulled out a one-gallon, wide-mouth mason jar and set it on the table in front of him. He also produced about a dozen fist-sized rocks and carefully placed them, one at a time, into the jar. When the jar was filled to the top and no more rocks would fit inside, he asked, "Is this jar full?" Everyone in the class yelled, "Yes." The time management expert replied, "Really?" He reached under the table and pulled out a bucket of gravel. He dumped some gravel in and shook the jar causing pieces of gravel to work themselves down into the spaces between the big rocks. He then asked the group once more, "Is the jar full?" By this time the class was on to him. "Probably not," one of them answered. "Good!" he replied. He reached under the table and brought out a bucket of sand. He started dumping the sand in the jar and it went into all of the spaces left between the rocks and the gravel. Once more he asked the question, "Is this jar full?" "No!" the class shouted. Once again he said, "Good." Then he grabbed a pitcher of water and began to pour it in until the jar was filled to the brim. Then he looked at the class and asked, "What is the point of this illustration?" One eager beaver raised his hand and said, "The point is, no matter how full your schedule is, if you try really hard you can always fit some more things in it!" "No," the speaker replied, "that's not the point. The truth this illustration teaches us is, "If you don't put the big rocks in first, you'll never get them in at all. What are the 'big rocks' in your life, time with loved ones, your faith, your education, your dreams, a worthy cause, teaching or mentoring others? Remember to put these BIG ROCKS in first or you'll never get them in at all. So, tonight, or in the morning, when you are reflecting on this short story, ask yourself this question, "What are the 'big rocks' in my life?" Then, put those in your jar first.
If this inspired you, share with others so they can benefit!
You were one of the truly talented people in this world, and your efforts helped bolster this shared undertaking called civilization.
And now, in an act of selfish indulgence, you've decided to turn your back on your rare talents, and instead provide very simple child rearing ("I now alternate with my wife in waking up our daughter every morning, preparing her breakfast and driving her to school.") to a single one of the 73.98 million children in the US (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=united+states+populatio...)
This is not my values, and we should not venerate this man for his selfish choices.
You're not going to be able to convince corporate America that a kid's dance recital is more important than a client meeting. All you'll do by stressing that dance recital is make busy parents feel bad for not being able to live up to some ideal, or discourage ambitious people from having kids because they think they can't be good parents too. You'll get a lot further trying to push back on ideas like "face time" or competing on who can take the least vacation. Don't have much work? Go home at 2 and take your kid to a museum. That's just as valuable as your being there for an arbitrary "milestone."