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It really does, in fact, work that way. Vulgar language is pretty common both in OSS and, perhaps surprisingly, in private codebases. I assume you don't subscribe to LKML, or have never read the linux kernel source? grep -ir fuck in linux, you may be surprised at what you uncover.

I understand your point and on a personal level I agree. I maintain a level of professionalism in my own work. I find that kind of language ultimately unproductive.

However, the OSS world has a good deal of engineering talent that swears like a sailor and is, at the same time, quite successful. This is simply an observable fact.



You're totally right. There are plenty of super talented and productive people out there of all kinds. But that doesn't mean none of them are giving programmers in general a bad name. Some of them very likely are.


I'm much more interested in protecting individual freedom of expression than I am with worrying whether there are people out there who are so crass as to collectively judge the entire field of software development.

Code is speech. Open source projects often have a subtext of affecting a political or social change either within a software community, or sometimes beyond. In this particular case, my reading of the text is that Zed wishes to create a baseline of ridicule for those who would prefer to alter software to support extremely old browsers. It's a fair position, and while he may be able to make that point without vulgar language he may also be effectively speaking to his audience with his crude humor.

As merijnv noted above, if you feel so strongly about language you're free to not use his project. He is free to speak and code as he wishes and you are free to support what you wish. This freedom of expression is extremely valuable, not because the word "fuck" has any particular intrinsic value, but because it's a culture of permissiveness which enables people to speak their minds and attempt to affect change even if they're clumsy and crude with language. Because it allows comedy -- and everyone's perception of comedic value is different.


> Open source projects often have a subtext of affecting a political or social change either within a software community, or sometimes beyond.

One time, I almost used a custom license in one of my projects which would have required my users to read a controversial book that supported my stance on something. It was intended to be half-joking and half-thought-provoking. But I decided to abandon this and use a standard free license, figuring that it's completely the wrong venue to try to effect social change, and it would prohibit people from deriving any utility from my project. I wish all public software projects would do the same. I know, it's a pipe dream, but a man can wish, can't he?

> As merijnv noted above, if you feel so strongly about language you're free to not use his project.

It's not practical to avoid using a project just because I disagree with its attitude. And it makes no sense to boycott it on principle, as I don't think so highly of myself to think my stance on something like this will actually have any kind of effect. I only wanted to comment on this to open discussion about the matter.


Sure. But do keep in mind that truly outrageous speech and behavior really does tend to have a devastating effect on the success of projects. We don't see that here because the speech really isn't outrageous or hurtful -- it's merely comedic and vulgar.

You may want to consider that your personal values aren't representative of the norm.


Maybe Linus should stop insulting people in a geeky way. And Bill Gates should have not been so nerdy. They affected people's perception!


I think a better analogy are the kind of programmers who make the kind of sexist jokes that you'd find in an Eminem song. This attitude proliferates and becomes such a general stereotype about "programmers" that it gives rise to activists[1] who work hard[2] to fight it.

[1]: i.e. https://twitter.com/steveklabnik

[2]: probably too hard


So what makes the analogy better isthatthey promote the stereotype that programmers harm people. I agree, this is the same kind of group self policing that Bruce Schneier would describe in The Dishonest Minority when for example local merchants screw tourists. Although individual reputation isnt affected, the group reputation is.




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