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Unlike the humanities, it is trivially easy to test if high school grads are just as good at math. Test them on the same questions.

In fact, doesn't the SAT purposely include recycled problems to measure capability drift vs time?



You'd better duck before the people who "don't test well" come for you. There are millions of people out there who swear they know a ton of things and have great skills in math/science/whatever, but when asked to demonstrate them in any verifiable way (a "test") they freeze up and perform poorly. I don't really think those people are all lying (it's probably an anxiety disorder) but the entire notion of being able to empirically measure knowledge/skills/aptitude is controversial to some people.


It doesn't matter if bad testers exist. Presumably, the percentage of them is not increasing over time, so the drift can still be measured. And if they are increasing over time, then the drift is still measuring something.


I can bend spoons with my mind, but only when nobody is watching.


> don't really think those people are all lying

They may not be lying. But it isn't that relevant. Someone knowing how to do something they can't perform isn't going to be useful as a mechanic.


It's also not relevant because are there more of the anxious testers now?


There sure seem to be more. Enough that some colleges have been bullied into eliminating the SAT or ACT requirements entirely, by those who allege they're unfair to that group. So those schools just admit based on the "homework grades" that are inflated by getting credit just for showing up and trying, success optional.

So IDK maybe there are more. Or maybe they are just louder now.


The suspension of SAT/ACT requirements was mostly a pandemic measure (and is being wound down) not something colleges were bullied into by people alleging unfairness (they are people alleging unfairness, they just aren't what got the policies implemented.)


> some colleges have been bullied into eliminating the SAT or ACT requirements entirely

"Starting in Fall 2026, a growing list of high-profile universities will once again require standardized test scores for admission, including most of the Ivy League, Stanford, and Georgetown to name a few" [1].

[1] https://www.ttprep.com/more-and-more-colleges-are-reinstatin...


> Enough that some colleges have been bullied into eliminating the SAT or ACT requirements entirely, by those who allege they're unfair to that group. So those schools just admit based on the "homework grades" that are inflated by getting credit just for showing up and trying, success optional.

You drank the kool-aid. There was no bullying there. It was logistics.

In almost all cases, standardized test results were made optional. They were not “eliminated”.

Those who did not supply standardized test results, at least at any school that actually rejected people, had to provide a higher standard of proof of their abilities in their admissions materials.

I live in CA, and I know quite a few folks who glibly didn’t take or submit standardized test scores, and they absolutely did not get into schools that they were very academically qualified for (e.g., mid-tier UC schools like UCSD). These schools normally would have been safety schools for the given caliber of applicant.

Ivies made the SAT optional for a while, especially in 2020, but that was largely due to an access issue. I think they all require it now. And again, any person who didn’t have an SAT score and got admitted was almost certainly a strong admit anyway (super strong external academic validation, recruited athlete, etc.). I’m guessing precisely zero people sneaked into an Ivy by slyly not submitting a standardized test score while also being a marginal applicant.

Just my informed 2 cents…


I dont think they're lying.

But these are ensemble averages, and presumably bad testers were as common before as they are today.

Or maybe not. Maybe the problem is the composition of the ensemble. Seems important to figure this out.




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