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It's shocking how many billions of spending are completely unaudited. Official gov't auditors have tried for years, but the target agencies stall and stall. You have to assume there is some malfeasance there.

Doing an audit starting with the treasury department seems like the right first step. Every outflow of money ultimately has to start there. It's the root node of the Sankey diagram. Then you follow the money outwards from there.



Audits can be done 'read only'. Audits don't actually have to impact the behaviour and operation of an organization either. Stopping all activity because of an 'audit' is ... wrong.


Write only is not an audit. This is a crisis management style.


You're shocked by how many billions go completely unaudited?

okay then...how many billions are completely unaudited?


Bigly huge numbers! No one knows how many billions except for me: and it’s many! That’s what people are saying!


So you're fine with USAID funding the development of Covid-19 through EcoHealthAlliance (it's been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt) and you're even finer with USAID then financing media (like the BBC and Politico but so many are very likely recipients of these funds) to do the coverup and pretend that it "couldn't have possibly been a lab-leak"?

If you're not fine with that, how do we suggest we even fix this?

The USAID literally financed the development of a virus that killed tens of millions of people worldwide. And then it greased many wheels to try to make people believe it couldn't possibly have been a lab-leak.

Trump just asked an audit of all the US donations that have been made to Ukraine: this looked like one of the biggest operation of money laundering in a long time.

Why are you even against trying to fix things?


Could I get a source of proof for the USAID-EcoHealthAlliance funding and development? I’m googling a lot of variations but I can’t find a good article. Just curious. Thanks.


I suspect the vast majority is in the DoD, which, strangely, isn't the target here.


Only strange if one believes this was about government waste and not an ideological "purification."


SpaceX gets a lot of their funding from the DoD, don't they?


Easy fix. You have until the end of the FY + 3mo to provide the audit report. If you do not provide it, your funding is cut to 0 for the next FY.


Ok, let's go hire someone..not...let random billionaires decide what to do


A random billionaire plus a bunch of high school kids with no demonstrable expertise in finance or accounting.


1 billion sent to the fluffer


Based on Musk’s tweets, the depth of this “audit” seems to be entirely surface level, e.g. “Lutheran in the name? DELETE.” (Not that they could do any better even if they wanted to given the blitzkrieg nature of the audit, size of the team, and complete lack of expertise.)


Based on Musk's tweets we had a fully-functioning FSD years ago and CyberTruck sales have been a runaway success...


Don't worry, the purely regulatory (according to Elon) barriers to FSD will soon be deleted by some SpaceX intern.


> Doing an audit starting with the treasury department seems like the right first step.

That's complete nonsense.

Imagine you're trying to track spending of departments at a massive company. You wouldn't start by looking at a giant list of wire transfers from/to the company's bank accounts and work your way backwards to find what each payment refers to would you?

That would make no sense. Not only would it be practically impossible to do but plenty of resources might be shared between departments and lumped into single payments to a single company for many services, some payments or reimbursements might span several transfers, some things might be paid upfront, other bills may be only due later etc...

That would be a ridiculously bad way to go about it. And then imagine someone starts canceling random wire transfers that they think "look suspicious" lol.


Not if the company had up-to-date audited financials, no. You'd start with those.

The problem is agencies that haven't been audited in a decade. The agencies literally don't report how much money they get, their current balances, or where it goes.

Here's the DOD proudly announcing that they now have clean audits for 11 of their 28 departments: https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/39.... Surely nothing bad is happening in the other 17.


I’m all for better accounting practices and better tracking of government spending as well as eliminating waste. Absolutely.

But pretending that Musk and co are doing an audit by accessing treasury records and payment systems or that it will help with government waste in any way is laughable.

Again, literally no one would be able to make any kind of credible department spending audit out of the bank records of a mid-sized company.

This is the US government’s treasury we’re talking about here! This is several orders of magnitude bigger and more complicated!

Not to mention an audit would not require any write access.


If only there were a part of the government whose job it was to proactively and continuously crawl the interiors of the bureaucracy to identify opportunities for improvement...

If only they had a standing list of more than 5000 such improvement opportunities...

Welcome to the Government Accountability Office!


> You wouldn't start by looking at a giant list of wire transfers from/to the company's bank accounts

Might be the first data you secure though.


In what way is this "securing" the data?

> a top DOGE employee, 25 year old former SpaceX employee Marko Elez, has not only read but write access to BFS servers

> One senior IT source can see Mark retrieving “close to a thousand rows of data” but they can’t see the content because the system is “top secret” even to them. No source I have has knowledge of what DOGE is doing with the data they are retrieving


Every report on this shows the data has been made much LESS secure now.


I was referring to how you'd conduct an audit. I don't mean adding extra security, I mean taking backups so they can't be tampered during the audit.


That’s the same thing though.

You think the treasury doesn’t have a metric ton of procedures, and laws, on data management, integrity, access, backup and retention?

Breaking these protocols by giving unfettered write access to this data to ridiculously inexperienced and ignorant goons exponentially increases the risk of data tampering and corruption…

It makes any kind of audit LESS likely to be accurate.

But they’re very obviously not doing any kind of credible audit. As mentioned, that’s literally impossible and nonsensical to do this way.


Untrained "auditors" will do an "audit" and blast the "results" all over X, Fox News, Newsmax, and OAN. Seems legit.


"The vibes were so off with these rows of data bro" - BigBalls (actual screenname of one of these newly blessed "auditors")


I wouldn’t trust a 19 year old to do my taxes let alone audit all of federal spending.


Those are a couple of people within a much larger team.


Much larger? How much larger? I thought it was a pretty small group.


I wouldn't trust my teenager with a "large" team of people in control of the federal payments system.


Ranging from 19-24.


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I dunno, maybe get an undergrad degree in a related field? I don’t think working as a bike repairman qualifies you.


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No, none of them are qualified. Elon isn’t either.


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Please don't cross into personal attack and please stop perpetuating flamewars on HN.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.


It speaks to their experience, of which they have none. They and Musk lack the competence to be doing what they’re engaged in.


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As far as worrying about who has write access to these systems, I think the article makes it fairly clear that even if you're a COBOL programmer with years of experience, that doesn't mean you know these specific COBOL systems and their logic.

Age aside, I feel uncomfortable about anyone new (even experienced COBOL programmers) being able to make changes in these systems, especially given their approach has been portrayed as broadly antagonistic to existing engineers and staff.


I agree with that and write access is concerning but there is no evidence or information about doge employees modifying cobol code.

From the article, the closest thing they have to an evidence is a search query. Rest of it is pure speculation since none of the people who reached out to author has any kind of visibility into what is going on.


At the rate things are going: give it a day. Maybe two. DOGE hasn't even tried to honor it's "transparency" pledges and all the info we get are pretty much from people inside these systems... who speak out less because Musk is also firing anyone he can.


>Experience in what? Do you know their roles and responsibilities?

> How do you judge competence of someone whose job and responsibilities are not known?

It's actually very easy to judge, based on the fact that someone who has never done an audit before is now trusted to do one.

I mean, I wouldn't trust Einstein himself at age 24 to audit a small business, no way am I going to think that some rando, maybe brighter than average, will know what they are doing when performing an audit at age 24.

I also think that, if the story is true, the fact that they started at the wrong end of the financials is a dead giveaway that they do not know what they are doing.

IOW, if I saw someone tasked with designing a new car, and they started by opening up MS Paint and drawing tread patterns for the spare wheel, I'd certainly consider them unable to design a new car.

Even if we err on the side of benefit of doubt, even the smartest 24yo in the world is not going to be competent at doing even a basic audit when:

1. This is the first audit that they are doing, and 2. They have never before had any accounting background.

So, yeah, it's quite reasonable to consider them incompetent that the chosen task in the circumstances.


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Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.


But we trust them with billions in military hardware and defending the nation.


No we don't. They get small arms. Fighter jets, aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines and the like are commanded by much older and experienced people. An M16 is not "billions in military hardware."


After super intensive training and supported by an ultra-regimented social and technological infrastructure?


I mean, not individually.




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