I recently got a 30W Anker USB-C charger that is as small as the really old iPhone chargers, less than an inch cube, and it charges my M1 MacBook at full speed. It's far less than a third of the size of this 90W charger.
MacBook Pro models are able to fast charge at 140W (M1 onwards). Even the original M1 MacBook Air can charge at 45W[0]. I don't think it's accurate to say that the 30W Anker charger can charge your "M1 MacBook" at "full speed".
There are a few video games I can play with my m2 laptop plugged into my 80W monitor and the battery still charges. But it will drain on the 60W monitor if I get the wires switched around.
In my comment I wrote just three sentences. The middle sentence starts off "Even the original M1 MacBook Air..." Then the link I provided is to an investigation on charging speeds of the MacBook Air.
That link shows that it's using >45W while (potentially) powered on and doing things other than charging.
Apple supplies a 30W charger in the box, so I think it's fair to say that a third-party 30W charger is "full speed" (in the sense of "as good as the stock one", if not full speed in all potential scenarios GP might or might not care about).
That is not a reasonable definition of full speed. You would seriously say out loud that a 45+W charger “charges the laptop 50% faster than it charges at full speed”?
Aren't primary and secondary still connected for EMI management (causing the "weird buzzing sensation" when touching metal parts of connected devices)?
About a quarter of the way down there’s a section called, “The charger's underside: many tiny components” picture with a red line on it. Below it talks about it and claims only optoisolators connect the two sides. Obviously the transformer also connects the two sides, but you know what I mean.
I don't have an answer to that question, only an educated guess. But I gave up on getting it a long time ago. I use the three pronged connector unless I'm plugged into something like an inverter.
Before that change I did end up throwing away a PSU that was causing tingling on my laptop. I don't know if that's a manufacturing flaw or damaged wiring.
The educated guess as to the mechanism is 'floating ground' (the white wire has a potential versus earth ground). It causes weird behavior in house wiring, particularly ones that have had iteration in their wiring (remodels, additions). Then there's the one where LED lights turn on even if the switch is off, but I think that's a separate phenomenon from floating ground.
It’s inherent to all class 2 PSUs (or really all PSUs without mandatory safety grounding, which is only safely possible as a class 2).
It happens even in a properly wired building without faults, since a class 2 PSU needs a path for EMI on the secondary side to be dissipated, and due to the lack of a dedicated ground, the only choice is to connect both phase and return to the secondary circuit via a Y capacitor.
A common downside of that is a stray voltage of up to half your mains voltage on any conducting surface of your device, but it’s harmless since it’s not capable of sustaining any meaningful current.
It's sad that for such high price you have this "weird buzzing sensation" (which is because it is not grounded properly), and that you can hear the buzzing sound too if you put your ear very close.
By definition you can't have grounding on a power supply without a grounding pin, unfortunately.
Apple's power supplies for MacBooks do have a grounding pin, but the default duckhead adapter they ship with usually doesn't leverage it, so you end up with a class 2 power supply and the buzzing sensation.
> that you can hear the buzzing sound too if you put your ear very close.
I've found Apple power adapters to be pretty good in that regard, unlike some third-party power supplies that I can hear across the room. If I can only hear the noise when I put my ear next to the supply, I can just not do that :)
Do the Anker one's come with international plugs? I didn't see any indication on their product pages that they come with the adapters. Nor could I find them for sell.
I do like the form factor of the Anker. I was a little surprised that they don't come with international adapters. My Genki Switch charger does and it looks like they have a similar, removable plug adapter.
Oh well, I'll probably follow your advice or checkout a different brand. Thanks!
That may be what it’s called, but I never use it. Ironically I work closely with electronics engineers and we still use “kettle lead”, “figure 8” and similar in person since everyone knows what they mean. BOMs are a different kettle of fish of course.
That is not the case. Fast charging is worse for the battery, but a 60W GaN vs a 60W SiC charger is not going to treat your battery any different, for example.
The concern about chargers being 'good' or 'bad' for your battery is mostly an issue with 90s and 00s technologies where chargers directly interfaced with batteries. The way modern PD devices work, however the battery charges is entirely up to the onboard charge controller in your device. They always charge in accordance with how your device was designed to charge. We call them 'chargers' but really they're just power supplies.
It's not the GaN, it's the higher wattage that's possible. Fast charging can increase device/battery temperature which, for fan-less designs like iPhones or MacBook Air, can lead to slightly higher degradation.
That's not correct and very misleading. The wattage is the max amount of power the charger can output. It's up to the device being charged to negotiate and pull the right amount of current and wattage. This is case with modern charging protocols and even older 5v usb chargers. This is similar to how you might have a 15A rated outlet in your house, but that doesn't mean it's going to "force" 15A though whatever device you plug into that. It's the device that determines how much power it will pull.
My analogy is an EV - of course your EV isn't going to pull current that's dangerous but fast charging it has been shown to degrade battery life - especially if the EV doesn't have active cooling for the battery pack.
Putting that EV on a slow charge that might be sufficient for an overnight charge might be better for the battery pack.
This is a setting on the device side. The EV it self will decide how much current to pull, based on charging profile that you set.
You are correct on that charging at higher currents can reduce battery cycle life, but it's the device it self that decides how much current to pull based on the charging profile that you selected. In your example with an EV,you set the charging profile on your vehicle, not the outside charger. The charger's job is to provide as much current/voltage as requested by the device.
It is just plain inaccurate to state that GaN is the problem, or opens up new possibilities for fast charging. All it does is make the charger smaller.
Erm, comparing a 30W charger to a 90W charger is a bit like asking why your local UPS driver doesn't do a day's work in a VW Golf.
Wattage aside, I'm sure there's more to it than meets the eye. Afterall, Apple are not stupid, smaller charger means less plastic casing and less packaging means simpler manufacturing ... no doubt the Apple ones are the size they are for a reason.
> no doubt the Apple ones are the size they are for a reason.
That reason might well be "because it's slightly cheaper to build a larger charger and most people wouldn't be willing to pay more for a device that comes with a compact one in the box".
Apple are so large and require such scale and control that they have to phase in technology like GaN over time.
You can't just order 15M components, built to a custom spec, and get them reliably overnight. Hence Apple have been working to scale supply lines, work with suppliers (and their suppliers) and ensure both quality and other factors (like environmental concerns).
Anker can go out of stock and then produce again when things stabilize. Apple can't stop selling Macs for 3 months without a major global crisis.
After getting the M1 I'm typing this on I asked if a MagSafe 1-MagSafe 3 adapter existed. <https://np.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/10duooq/i_want_a_...> I felt foolish when I realized that being able to charge from USB-C meant that I could use any old charger and a USB-C cable for the times when I'm away from the stock Apple charger that came with the computer. Bonus: No more dealing with the Apple cable to the MagSafe 1 plug that inevitably lost its sheathing and exposed wires within a year.
Been pretty happy with my GaN Anker brick, which is 150W and smaller than not only the 87W Apple brick, but also the 140W Apple brick and can charge up to 4 things instead of just one. It packs into my laptop bag nicely and makes it unnecessary to bring any other bricks.
Mind that a lot of chargers do weird power allocation things when multiple devices are connected. You probably aren't going to get all 150W to the laptop with four devices connected; depending on the charger and what port you're connected to, you may get much less.
Yeah, it’s almost always at night while I’m asleep that it’s charging multiple things. It also has a port marked to plug a laptop into, which I’d assume it prioritizes over the other ports.
I always bring just a ~5 year old 65W Dell USB-C charger. It can charge my Pixel from 0 to 100 in 90 minutes, and can take my M1 Pro from 40% to 80% in 60 minutes. It is rugged, and significantly smaller than the Apple power brick that came with the M1 Pro.
Don't think I've travelled with more than one charger since phones switched away from micro-USB.
Worth noting that Anker's 150W charger[1] isn't quite as fast as the 140W Apple charger, because the Anker will only deliver up to 100W to any single port (even if it's the only one being used) whereas the Apple can pump the full 140W out.
Of course, outside of fairly niche situations, this isn't going to make a practical difference to your life. :D
Like reaperman said, I don't know about "full speed". But for a year I used a 27W charger with my M1 MacBook Pro. It wasn't fast, but did the job (especially overnight).
The author goes on to state that the problems are with their cables, which for many Apple users is well known. The plastic coating they used that was engineered to be be more supple and "bendable" than other cables was prone to deterioration and breaking down, causing fraying and exposed wires. Apple has since moved on to braided cables since then.
The actual bricks themselves have been pretty reliable.
I have several well-functioning 1st-party chargers with perfectly intact cables, and sometimes it won't charge. Or it will, but the light doesn't turn on for some reason. Fixes itself when I replug it. Been this way since '06.
> The Macbook charger is an impressive piece of engineering, even if it's not as reliable as you'd hope. On the other hand, cheap no-name chargers cut corners and often have safety issues, making them risky, both to you and your computer.
Given the above quote from the conclusion section, after a lengthy Why you shouldn't get a cheap charger section, my takeaway is that the author still endorses the Macbook charger.
There's something on the Lightning and iPhone side managing charging too. I wasn't talking about the AC->DC rectifier or USB on the brick. In the end, an iPhone will fail to charge pretty often even if the cable isn't frayed, hence the joke that iPhones are always low on battery.
Anyone know what's going on with the ground pin on apple chargers? Why add it if they don't include the 3-prong extension cord in any of their Macbooks (in the U.S. at least)?
Huh, my MacBook bought directly from Apple did come with a 3-prong cord, but I've seen plenty that didn't. I specifically remember having one, replacing it with a random 2-prong cord to fit into cramped outlets in high school, and my cautious friend saying "that's jank."
It's not necessary to have the ground and there probably isn't enough cost savings to remove it. They've used the same design for years and just disconnecting the ground wouldn't make any sense because then the grounded cable would be pointless.
Transistor oscillation and rectifying converter power supply system U.S. patent 3,040,271 is filed by Joseph E. Murphy and Francis J. Starzec, from General Motors Company.
The actual risk is that a cheap charger fails in an unsafe way, and exposes users to unsafe voltages. You need, internally, the right creepage and clearance distances, and you need to use the correct parts in certain places with the correct failure modes (e.g. must fail open or must fail closed). Some cheap chargers are not built to the same safety standards. You won’t notice anything unless they fail in an unsafe way. Unlikely, but possible.
> You won’t notice anything unless they fail in an unsafe way. Unlikely, but possible.
Cheap chargers skimp on safety. Entirely possible they fail unsafely.
I once bought a cheap no-name Android charger and it literally exploded after a year of use. Hot metal droplet landed on phone screen which was a cute reminder for a while (until later the screen cracked through where the droplet was).
That tingly feeling has been found by me on plenty of different device power supplies. That is high voltage getting passed to the low voltage side - a sign of bad design. The last two devices I remember were (1) a multi-USB charger which tingled but seemed to work okay and (2) cheap speakers for a PC where the voltage hum was causing serious problems with other devices connected to the PC (and hard to diagnose cause).
I'm amazed how many unsafe electrical devices we own: the safety standards are not working in my experience. And I think New Zealand has stronger standards than the US.
> I'm amazed how many unsafe electrical devices we own: the safety standards are not working in my experience.
Safety standards aren't the issue, their enforcement is. In most countries, agencies overseeing the safety of electrical consumer equipment, are perpetually understaffed and/or underfunded.
So they don't have the resources to take a good sampling of what's on the market, and (thoroughly) test those samples.
As a result, it's mostly especially bad gear (discovered by accident, # of incident reports etc) that gets attention. Or becomes subject of a recall.
What's left is relying on paperwork, and manufacturers or importer's integrity. Which (as you note) varies a lot depending on where you look. Especially in this day & age of people buying cheap junk directly from abroad through Ebay, AliExpress & co. Not to mention fakes, or no-name manufacturers that pop up & disappear overnight.
> You won’t notice anything unless they fail in an unsafe way. Unlikely, but possible.
Which, in the worst case, will start a fire that will burn down your house. It's not worth the risk of using cheap chargers; buy from a reputable brand
And from a reliable retailer that doesn’t sell counterfeits or turn a blind eye like Amazon does. If you buy Apple, get it from the Apple Store or B&H.
If anything, the opposite. Most fast charging devices (any that advertises a 0-50% charge rate) end up throttling charge as it gets closer to 100% because filling up all cells super quickly can actually damage the battery.
That's also why many laptops (such as Macbooks) come with an "intelligent" charging feature that will limit charging to 80%, only charging up that last 20% when it thinks you'll need it
On the other hand, ultra-low-power charging might effectively cause alternating between charging and discharging (e.g. when the Macbook wakes up to do things via "power nap" in the background, which on Apple Silicon devices can't be prevented and which might use more than 5W).
Yeah, slower charging (like 20W) seems good, but I've used phone chargers out of desperation before and seen the alternating charge/discharge. Can't be good for it.
I ran computers on a pdu and they lasted forever, the traditional transistors that blew on identical motherboards not using pdu/cleaned power is enough data for me
I should say you're right about power surges and things like that. I meant to say I don't think it causes slow continual degradation as happens to batteries.
Also: people love to save money in the wrong places.
Like a relative of mine who ruined an expensive (500€+) brand name suit jacket by hanging it on a 50 cent wire hanger and now the shoulders have permanent very visible indents. Spending 5€ on a proper hanger would've been enough.
Absolutely classic: A long article about the beautiful engineering and perfection behind the charger, and then -
"The ironic thing about the Apple Macbook charger is that despite its complexity and attention to detail, it's not a reliable charger."
That's the funny thing about engineering. I have built a lot of things and have used a lot of tools across the entire spectrum from shitty garbage cast out of pot metal (think Harbor Freight, Aliexpress etc) to five-figure Serious Tools for Serious People (cranes, large format cutters, thrusters, advanced measuring equipment etc.) From that experience I can say confidently: It is impossible to know for sure if something is reliable until you actually use it for an extended period of time.
I have seen countless absolute hack-job products made of pot metal last decades in a marine environment and I have seen a similarly endless number of beautifully engineered products made of top-tier materials fail catastrophically. Sometimes the shitty product will have two failures that miraculously cancel each other out, or it will rust to shit and keep working, or it will fall to pieces but can be easily epoxied back together to get another ten years out of it. That's the other side of the coin of perfection - repair. With the beautifully-engineered product made with quality materials? Nine times out of ten, fuhgeddaboudit. If you have a serious failure, you're fucked. There is no practical economic way to repair that Mac charger, or your fried fancy oscilloscope, or any advanced motor, or unibody, or virtually anything made of titanium, carbon fiber, et cetera. Give me the cheapest version of your object, however, and I can repair it using only crap from Walmart.
Don't get me wrong - give me infinite money and replacements and I will take your beautiful object every time, and in many cases today I have "infinite money" given the price of the product. An Apple Silicon Mac is cheap to replace and it is head-and-shoulders engineered above the rest; it is the pinnacle of all human engineering through history, in my opinion. If mine breaks I will just buy a new one. The problem is that as the world grows richer, this has gone from a luxury attitude to one more people can have each year, and the proportion of beautiful, perfectly engineered objects steadily rises. A hundred years ago no such objects existed. Thirty years ago, they were rare. Today, you can buy anything, from drills to cameras to new unibody cars that are beautiful and flawless and engineered to perfection and completely uneconomical to repair. There are exceptions, wear item parts, manufacturers with repair guides... but they are on the way out. Make no mistake, the moment anything can become a perfect sealed lifetime part, it will.
In the distant future, worlds ahead of endless energy and materials, long after the idea of popular repair dies, I only hope it will be reborn as a hobby; bored humans instructing bored robots to choose the inefficient path, to repair and not replace.
> bored humans instructing bored robots to choose the inefficient path, to repair and not replace.
Repair is more efficient than replace! You're replacing something in either case. But in a repair, you replace less: only the part(s) that failed.
Reasons we don't (in many cases) are 3-fold:
1) Products are designed for 'easy'/efficient/cheap manufacturing, not to be easily repairable. "Repair-friendly" is often near the bottom on consumers' wishlist.
2) Manufacturers have become laser-focussed on that (successfully!), such that some devices literally cost pennies. Combined with
3) We value human time above machine/production time. So in most cases, the cost of [human time spent on repair] exceeds cost of [just buy replacement device].
Maybe "repair robots" will change that equation some day? Only if those are cheap & skillful enough.
I tried to address this somewhat in my comment, but alas the world has been moving in the other direction and it's not just simple choice or value; it's that the new way is often far superior.
>There is no practical economic way to repair that Mac charger, or your fried fancy oscilloscope, or any advanced motor, or unibody, or virtually anything made of titanium, carbon fiber, et cetera.
The issue lies in their superiority. The modern powerboard which filters and slices is far superior to its simple cousin. Titanium, carbon fiber, advanced composites permit the impossible. Elegant unibodies provide strength, cooling, simplicity. Sealed black boxes bring reliability, weight, strength. None of those things can be repaired economically. We are a rich world now, getting richer by the minute. The objects that surround us are sleek, powerful, reliable, perfect. I suspect nothing can stop this tide now. The march of time will forge ever more perfect objects and leave us useless in its wake.
Do you actually repair power adapters? Sure I can see it for other things, but for high voltage home electronics it sounds dangerous. Like when you had to remember to discharge CRTs when opening an all in one computer case.
Yeah, all the time. In fact, I'm repairing one right this minute. If anyone reading this is near the uws in nyc and has a ruef400 or similar pptc fuse handy I'll trade you for a beer! Email in profile :)
As far as dangerous home electronics repairs go, CRTs were pretty much the top of the list and they're all but gone now. Normal 110v work is rarely that dangerous even if you mess it up and most things aren't even 110v anymore - lots of consumer electronics just take a standard 5 or 12VDC or whatever. Besides, 90% of electronic repair is "find the burnt, hot or damaged component and replace it"; you're not exactly designing your own powerboard from scratch. Hell, there are hundreds of thousands of products on Amazon with hot 110V metal cases, which is pretty much the worst imaginable thing, and yet few people get injured by them - the reality is that whatever sin you possibly commit in your DIY repair has a tiny chance of causing any real world injury.
But more to my point, these days doing your own repairs are unusual, sixty years ago it was often included in the instruction manual. Even the cheap shitty stuff is less cheap and shitty than it once was; smaller, more efficient parts, SMD components, "sealed lifetime" bits, unrepairable materials etc.
I recently got a 30W Anker USB-C charger that is as small as the really old iPhone chargers, less than an inch cube, and it charges my M1 MacBook at full speed. It's far less than a third of the size of this 90W charger.
I'd love to see a teardown of that, too.