I feel a bit frustrated with the startup application process. The (very common) question, "List any links that will let us know who you are. For example, projects you've worked on or links to your GitHub, StackOverflow, Twitter, blog, website, etc." always seems to hold a lot of weight while being tangent to the work I would expect to be doing. I don't have a GitHub, I'm not a StackOverflow member, I'm not on Twitter, I don't have a blog, and I haven't had a website since graduating with my CS degree. That does not mean that I am not talented, smart, or motivated.
In my case, I like to interact personally with friends as opposed to digitally. I like to work on personal projects to satisfy my curiosity without being worried about later publishing them. And I'm not interesting/vain enough to warrant a blog, website, or Twitter presence. I like to work hard, "learn" hard (I do enjoy Hacker News), and play hard, and keeping up on the latest shiny-new-technology-web-presence-clique seems tangential to that.
My goal is to work for a few years in an interesting software development position on a smart team, getting paid a fair wage while providing the company with equal value in return. In those years, I would expect to learn (and contribute!) a lot while also paying off my debts and helping out my parents. After that, I would reëvaluate my goals and my career.
What frustrates me is that I feel like I have to jump through hoops just to get into the mix. I feel like I won't even be seriously considered unless I develop a few simple web tools built on RoR, promote them on a DJango website with a blog, host the source to the whole thing on GitHub, jump into the Twitter craze, and try to make useful contributions to FOSS and StackOverflow communities that are already saturated with great solutions. That seems like a lot of unimportant crap when all I really want to do is good work. If it takes me an extra day to learn RoR because your company uses it, that seems very small in the entire scheme of things.
I understand that I don't have a web-visible track record to point you to. I'm quite willing to work at an under-market rate for a few months until I'm up to speed and it is determined that I am a good fit. Is there anywhere interesting to work that is looking to hire somebody like me?
We're one of the companies that will hire people through the YCommonApp, and we don't care if you're on twitter, github, stackoverflow, have a blog or a website, and whether you've played with RoR, Django, Clojure, or some other flavor of the week technology. Being damn good at what you do is more than enough for us.
OK, thanks for the data point. Thanks in large part to the comments of you and others, I went ahead submitted my application. Unfortunately, the only way you could know that I'm damn good at whatever work I'm doing (whether that be serving, bartending, tutoring, valet parking, programming, or working in a steel mill) is to accept my word and give me some work to do. :)
You are mixing up too many things. You don't have to be a celeb on twitter/SO/GitHub to get into YC. In fact, I think majority of folks that get into YC aren't the most active or even active on those platforms you list. HN is full of YC founders who have very few posts. While some prominent HN members have gotten into YC, I think that is more of an exception than the rule.
That does not mean that I am not talented, smart, or motivated.
What do you suggest they do? There are thousands of people aching to get into these programs. Vast majority of them believe they are smart, talented and motivated. At the end of the day though there are only so many spots. So naturally, you need a filter of some kind--even if it is not perfect.
You know you are talented but I urge you to put yourself in the shoes of folks at the other end. How are they supposed to know you are talented, smart or motivated?
The point is not to get into YC, but to work for a YC-funded company, or more generally, in any exciting development environment. Being a good employee requires certain skills, skills which don't always heavily overlap with the skills required to be a founder. A founder has to have drive and vision, the ability to motivate others, and the wherewithal to see things through to completion, among other things. A good employee's main traits include working efficiently and communicating effectively (in my experience, in any job).
Some people are capable of producing great work when given a little direction and prodding. Those same people may iterate endlessly and have trouble finishing things when working independently. Thus, there is an entire class of good workers who will almost by definition not have the types of independent projects that many hiring startups are so keen to see.
I feel like younger start-ups in particular have the attitude: "If you don't have a trail of your own work, you're not extremely self directed, and we don't have the structure to manage you". And I think that's valid. If you still want to apply to these types of companies you should organize and show off the projects you've done on your own on a day to day basis.
That said, there are startups that have a more mature process. A necessary but insufficient condition is that they have hired a product manager or two. I know we'd get your application if you use this tool, but you should check out Loopt because it is a more mature startup. You can contact me directly if you have questions (check profile for contact).
I think a lot of this comes down to the company's ability to vet a candidate. I find it fortunate that I can easily find and read code that someone I am interviewing actually wrote. In most cases you can also find when he/she wrote it and in what context. This is what I am looking for, and I don't need to get it from github or the like.
Job postings are more often than not (imo) poorly worded. The main idea is that you extract what they are actually looking for, which you can in most cases. If they ask for your github account and you do not have one - tell them you don't and send them some significant code samples. If they ask for a twitter/SO account and you don't have one - say you focus most of your commentary on HN and give them your username here.
I don't know of any companies that will ignore/discount you if you provide them with the data they are seeking.
My goal is to work for a few years in an interesting software development position on a smart team, getting paid a fair wage while providing the company with equal value in return.
Yeah, that's not how it works, ever. If you copypasted this from under "Objective" in your resume, which is what it sounds like, you might want to remove the words "equal value".
Good point, but I didn't mean it quite that literally. I only meant that I don't expect to get paid without producing. Fortunately, that is not the "Objective" on my resume, but thanks anyways for the pointer.
What they're asking for is basically a portfolio. You don't need a portfolio to get a good job, but it helps. Perhaps you should spend some time putting one together.
Sadly, there will almost always be hoops, and you will almost always have to jump through them.
I know this might seem too fatalistic of an outlook, but I personally find that it's mostly true, and accepting it allows you to better deal with hoops in their various shapes and sizes. You can break the mold every now and again, and avoid the hoops, but often it's more effective to just practice your hula (hoop)
I hear what you're saying. Not having an impressive GitHub/StackOverflow/etc account in no way means you aren't an awesome developer.
You sound like a smart guy who knows what he's looking for. I'd suggest applying. I know none of the YC companies care about whether you have a certain number of followers on Twitter or GitHub. They want people who are smart and get stuff done.
I'd be happy to move almost anywhere (but especially coastal places because I love the ocean). In a way, that makes it almost harder to figure out where to begin the application process. Any pointers?
The reality of an applicant is that there is extremely little information about a startup and its reputation, and what little there is is almost always identical to every other startup (free food, have an impact, big challenges, blah blah blah).
You only really discover whether it's a good fit or not after you've worked there for months. If you're really lucky, after you've had all the interviews. But really never ever before you've even applied.
During the application process, I'd argue that the employer has the best idea whether the fit would be good or not.
This is especially true of YC companies, I suspect. I'm pretty sure all YC-funded startups have great working conditions, and most of them have pretty good ideas and a good chance of making it.
There are several reasons. For one, most of the best engineers and hackers have jobs already. Even if they're not super happy with their jobs, the prospect of seeking out better places to work, submitting lots of resumes and cover letters, etc, has a high activation energy. The YCommonApp is a convenient way for people to get introduced to a whole bunch of high-quality and exciting places to work in a short amount of time.
Also, since it's a custom application, anyone responding to it will have taken the time to fill it out specifically, which eliminates the standard resume-sprayers on craigslist, et al.
As an employer, wouldn't you demand someone be interested in the specific problems you're trying to solve though? Do kids who want to be part of $generic_sexy_yc_startup last long?
Sure, but I'd assume they'd decide that in a later phase. Submitting something to YCommonApp is just like going to a mixer where you think interesting companies might be.
I was thinking about proposing something like a mixer (after reading these threads today), and now that you've mentioned it - why not have regular mixers for hiring YC companies and interested hackers?
OK, that's fair... maybe they can decide at a later phase. I guess I take issue with this being presented as a way to "apply to 25+ startups" instead of a more "mixer-like" approach.
I don't consider myself a kid anymore, but I'd still love to be part of a startup. The opportunity to work with smart individuals in a sensible environment is pretty huge. The potential to learn a lot about what is required in running a startup is another thing. The ability to make a good living while doing something cool is yet another.
I'm one of those people who doesn't particularly care what startup I work for. As long as it's not a spamming site or something else that generally makes the world a worse place, I'd be excited to work there.
If I wanted to solve problems I was interested in, I'd be a Ph.D. student, create a personal project, start my own startup, or get a completely unrelated job while programming in my spare time. Right now (for the next few years, at least) I just want to make some good, reasonably-steady money while providing value in a job that I enjoy. The specific problems I'd be solving have very little bearing on my thought process right now.
Right now (for the next few years, at least) I just want to make some good, reasonably-steady money while providing value in a job that I enjoy. The specific problems I'd be solving have very little bearing on my thought process right now.
Um, it sounds like you really don't want to work for a startup. And, that's not a bad thing.
Perhaps you've been oversold on the startupian == special forces, genco employee == demoralized grunt attitude that's common on sites like this.
The opportunity to work with smart individuals in a sensible environment is pretty huge.
There is no generic startup, and many startups are far from sensible!
All that said, I'm in week two of my startup, but it's because I have an unbearable, pathological, un-fucking-reasonable need to work for myself.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with steady and sensible, but you're not likely to find it by generically applying to startups.
I realize that there are non-startups I'd enjoy working for, but in general I think that being employee number 10-50 would suit me better. I'd prefer to spend the majority of my time developing new code. I enjoy creating APIs. I would want to be able to execute good ideas (that make it quickly into the end product) myself without a ton of bureaucracy. Sure, there are some companies where these things are true, but I think they are much more likely to be the case in a startup.
And when I say "steady", I don't mean that I need a high-paying job that I needn't be scared of losing for the next several years. I simply mean that I would like a salary with a monthly or bi-weekly paycheck for as long as I happen to be working there. I only meant steady in relation to freelancing or creating my own product.
I think there are interesting, challenging problems to solve at any and every funded startup (why else would they have been able to receive funding?).
I'm far more interested in working on The Next Big Thing—especially if it's a big challenge—than I am in a specific problem domain. Maybe it's just the way I'm wired; maybe it's a reflection of my skillset.
My guess is that the kind of person who would be attracted to the idea of working at any and all YC-backed startups is the same kind of person who is more interested in tackling big, challenging problems than any particular problem domain. Maybe I'm wrong and just projecting. What do you think?
It's a subjective question so don't feel bad about projecting. I was coming from the diametrically opposed position where I have a very specific interest and background (robotics) so I couldn't go write web-apps even if the business side ("the next big thing") was extremely compelling.
I was mostly trying to understand how (and if) YC's alpha engineers would happily go work on "the next big thing", largely independent of what that thing was.
I agree that the person should investigate the company a bit more before shotgunning out his or her application. I don't agree the domain matters so much, what matters is something fuzzier. I'm not sure exactly how to define it, but consider that at the 'trenches' level YC funded companies do a lot of the same day-to-day tasks with the same technologies.
Yeah, I didn't think you told them to use it. I've just noticed that the YC community seems to use eachother's products in order to achieve a compounding synergy-type effect, even if it sometime seems a bit odd, like this.
Also, I didn't draw the distinction between your essay site and "blogging." Makes sense now.
Why do you see Glade advertise Glade PlugIns on prime time television? Because sometimes you turn on the television to watch True Blood and still decide to buy a Glade PlugIn.
This model helps centralize the process for the popular companies, and it gives the less popular ones access to quality candidates. Everyone has a hiring problem.
As much as I love seeing other people on video, this method of applying for jobs is not for everyone. Somehow I feel really uncomfortable when there are cameras pointing at me.
There are two versions of the YCommonApp: one with video, and one without. You can apply using whichever you choose.
That said, we think the one with video is much more powerful. None of the YC companies are looking for slick presentations, just good hackers, so the videos should be pretty informal and conversational.
Video is more powerful potentially, but it's also very hard to "edit". I remember applying to YC via a video app and I probably had to redo the video at least 10 times before I felt satisfied with it. It's easier to just edit text with a mouse cursor than it is to edit video. Speaking into a camera isn't very natural, so it's hard for me to create such a video in a single take, however this problem probably wouldn't occur if it was a talking head that I was speaking to.
Perhaps you should be able to select only the companies you know you're interested in. Some people have specialties that would suit certain companies more than others.
So I'm just wondering if any of these companies hire foreigners?
Specifically Canadians. But if there could be some info up to let people know if they'll consider applications from outside the US that would be awesome so then some people don't waste time submitting a resume.
There are lots of YC companies who have hired foreigners, and have paid for the H1B, T1N, etc. (I'm basing this on the YC mailing list traffic). It seems to happen frequently.
I'm not sure off-hand which ones are open to this, but my guess is for a good engineer plenty are (particularly the larger ones). We'll try to find out for you.
Different people enjoy different things. For example, many hackers would prefer to work at a company where they could concentrate all their time on coding rather than start a startup themselves where they'd have to spend much of their time doing other tasks.
Reality of start-ups: if you're a founder and spend all your time coding, you're going to fail. I love coding, so I'd have to have an extremely compelling vision were I to do anything else.
If you've got the skills, but no experience with the start up scene, it would be a great time to hone your skills while learning about what it really takes to make a business work (from scratch) first hand. You would come out (more) ready to do it on your own idea on the other end.
But yeah if you've got an idea and the skills and the motivation required, by all means apply you YComb yourself.
If a company goes under the founder may have ended up living frugally as possible for a long period of time for no end reward. The employee has been there with them, faced the same challenging work but has had a comfortable wage the whole time and are just out of a job.
That being said may people would much prefer to take the risk as founder, there are plenty of other people out there though happy with the employee role at a startup for the time being or may have already tried the founder path.
Being an employee is significantly less risk and less stress than being a founder. Most of these companies have funding, traction, and a real product. It's different than being given $17K to make something of yourself, and presumably appeals to different people.
I'm more of a hardware hacker myself, and many of the linked web pages tell little about the startups. Does YC fund many hardware based startups, or is it exclusively software?
The vast majority of YC companies are pure software companies, but there are a few that aren't. A couple of the companies on the YCommonApp are working on hardware, including Wattvision.
The YCommonApp is a first step, not the last. Anyone who applies will have plenty of opportunity to learn more about the companies' products, cultures, etc before deciding which companies they think are good fits.
In my case, I like to interact personally with friends as opposed to digitally. I like to work on personal projects to satisfy my curiosity without being worried about later publishing them. And I'm not interesting/vain enough to warrant a blog, website, or Twitter presence. I like to work hard, "learn" hard (I do enjoy Hacker News), and play hard, and keeping up on the latest shiny-new-technology-web-presence-clique seems tangential to that.
My goal is to work for a few years in an interesting software development position on a smart team, getting paid a fair wage while providing the company with equal value in return. In those years, I would expect to learn (and contribute!) a lot while also paying off my debts and helping out my parents. After that, I would reëvaluate my goals and my career.
What frustrates me is that I feel like I have to jump through hoops just to get into the mix. I feel like I won't even be seriously considered unless I develop a few simple web tools built on RoR, promote them on a DJango website with a blog, host the source to the whole thing on GitHub, jump into the Twitter craze, and try to make useful contributions to FOSS and StackOverflow communities that are already saturated with great solutions. That seems like a lot of unimportant crap when all I really want to do is good work. If it takes me an extra day to learn RoR because your company uses it, that seems very small in the entire scheme of things.
I understand that I don't have a web-visible track record to point you to. I'm quite willing to work at an under-market rate for a few months until I'm up to speed and it is determined that I am a good fit. Is there anywhere interesting to work that is looking to hire somebody like me?