Since there's so much interest in gut biomes you may be interested in learning that what you eat greatly influences your biome. A vegan diet has been shown to substantially change your flora [1] in as little as a day [2]. I also found this video on the role of fiber, our gut flora, and our immune system interesting [3].
It's important for vegans and advocates of veganism (like myself) to be cautious and intellectually honest about possible health benefits of a vegan diet. I'm particularly thinking about things like how John Robbins used to do it, where he threw out page after page of correlations between populations eating animal protein and populations suffering disease burdens. That may have persuaded some people, but there are so many other factors (even just dietary factors) that could have accounted for the correlations!
The gut biome topic is hot now, but our understanding of it is so new and so limited that it's going to take a while to be confident about what would be a "good" or "healthy" biome in particular ways. It's definitely easy to change it, but still kind of unclear about how to know when particular changes can reasonably be called good or bad or beneficial or harmful (with particular counterexamples like clostridium difficile infection -- that seems bad).
Thanks, I am a recently turned vegan. I can't say I have experienced the change in "as little as a day". I've been a lifelong lacto-vegetarian (like most indian people) and recently dropped diary (last 2 years).
I think saying that antibiotics "mess up" your gut microbiome is making a lot of assumptions. Your biome changes if your diet changes. Saying that "any change" is "messing things up" is something I don't think has been proven.
Of course, there are risks of using antibiotic like C. difficile infections, but saying more than that is stretching the truth.
It would seem I was influenced by an earlier post today[1]. That post talked about research indicating that microbiome diversity was important/healthy.
While article of this post mentions that the linked study showed a change in composition and diversity, the abstract itself just mentioned a reduction of a particular beneficial group of bacteria:
Additionally, metagenomic predictions based on 16S rRNA gene amplicon data were performed using PICRUSt. The salivary microbiome was found to be significantly more robust, whereas the antibiotics negatively affected the fecal microbiome: in particular, health-associated butyrate-producing species became strongly underrepresented.[3]
Which I guess makes the assumption even simpler: greatly reducing a group of healthy bacteria from your gut for a while qualifies as messing it up.
Also the earlier article I read[3] does in fact posit that a reduction of diversity through diet change is in fact bad. Of course there is still a debate about the truthfulness and magnitude of that statement.
Right they don't say if it causes any harm. Antibiotics may occasionally have side effects, but lack of micro-biome diversity doesn't necessarily matter. If it made a big difference, you would expect to see more common side effects.
I guess that's kind of my point. Only recently has their been much study of the microbiome. At this point in time we can rapidly identify which species make up a given person biome. However, the link between a persons biome and their health is pretty weak right now. It's at best observational.
I simply took a probiotic after being on antibiotics for a couple months and it had a side effect of curing a lot of digestive problems I used to have. So there's that, too. Incidentally, my doctor was the one who advised this.
EDIT: The probiotic in my case was capsules of 15B cells of Lactobasillus GG. Marketing copy on the box suggests this is the "most clinically studied probiotic strain" but I'm not able to verify that.
So I run a probiotics site...and what that marketing claim means is that that precise strain of Lactobacillus Rhamnosus is the most researched.
There are many more studies on the species of probiotic Lactobacillus Rhamnosus as a whole...but for that exact "cousin" of the species, it is likely the most clinically researched probiotic.
There is a condition called Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth that fits this description. There is even an antibiotic that is marketed toward and prescribed for the condition called Xifaxan / rifaximin. Neomycin (another antiobiotic) is also used to treat it.
That is interesting. In my case, I was on two courses of antibiotics (a 7-day course and a 10-day course) during which I did not see improvement or use probiotics.
It's only when I started the 30-day course that my doctor told me about probiotics. I started the probiotics at the same time as the 30-day course and saw immediate improvement.
Perhaps my problems were caused by a lack of beneficial bacteria while your troubles were caused by some type of infection? Or maybe it was only the 3rd antibiotic that cleared something out of my system?
My father ended up on months-long rounds of antibiotics and started taking probiotics as a result. He also said it helped some similar digestive problems he's had for years.
Is there a difference between prescription probiotics vs say probiotic yogurt or over the counter supplements? I've also had digestive problems for years that may have been the result of antibiotics.
Honestly, I don't think probiotic yogurt really contains as much of the bacteria as you would need to affect your system. I bought two 4-packs of that stuff and ate them over the course of a week as a replacement for the over the counter stuff, just to see if it would help. No effect whatsoever. Went back to the over the counter stuff (Udo's Choice, which is expensive, refrigerated stuff from Whole Foods) and I was right again. Though I have to say, probiotic with 102 billion cells might be pushing it for most. Flora-wise, I felt like I had a whole rainforest coming out of my ass, but it wasn't really a bad experience. It fixed my burning diarrhea after my run of antibiotics.
That's the thing that gets me with probiotics/packaging: they list these counts that can vary widely and are sometimes seemingly astronomical.
It kind of implies that if some is good, then more is better. I've thought that there is certainly some level at which it's not good for you.
Logically, if a certain dosage is produced, then you assume it to have some therapeutic effect. So, adding an order of magnitude to a therapeutic dosage of something wouldn't seem universally harmless.
They list these numbers on yeast packets for brewing too. Much better that your yeast spends as much time as possible fermenting instead of growing and budding. With an initial count and an idea of the age of the batch you can decide if you're going to start the yeast in a small start batch(to prop up their numbers) or just plop the contents in.
What I'm trying to get at is a low dosage might mean the little critters take a while to reach a good population, while a high dosage might be what's needed to discourage growth and encourage their reactions.
In the UK at least, doctors may advise you to take probiotics but do not write you up a prescription for it as it is considered experimental.
I'be personally used acidophilus lactobacillus after an oral yeast infection which I got after taking preventative antibiotics (took pretty much everything - azithromycin, flucloxacillin and ciprofloxacin) for a severe bout of reactive arthritis and it seemed to make a difference. However I was still very messed up for at least 6 months.
That's the same thing they did here. I asked for a brand that other patients had reported success with and ended up with capsules containing 15B cells of Lactobacillus GG.
For about 15 years I have been having a stonyfield organic smoothie for breakfast and within the first month all my random digestive issues cleared up. Other than an occasional stomach bug or bad meal - both pretty rare for me these days - I've had no issues since.
You're right. I think there was a startup on here that had done a clinical study of some formula of theirs with many specific microbes.
In my case, I used a probiotic that contains only Lactobacillus GG (15B cells) and saw improvement after a course of antibiotics. My doctor recommended that when I asked, but said that it wasn't a prescription, just that he'd heard good reports from his patients.
For myself, I took them regularly for a couple weeks afterwards, then sporadically after that as constant usage doesn't appear to be required, at least for me.
If anyone is interested in a good probiotic with a lot of solid science behind it, you should definitely check out http://www.generalbiotics.com
It was created by the guys behind the NSF funded Human Biome project. It's excellent and contains over 100 strains (not just a few like most probiotic).
Ask HN: Any proven natural (without meds) ways to "reset" and restore gut flora?
Context: I grew up in India and to this day, there is a tendancy by Doctors to prescribe Antibiotics for anything, even cold viruses and non-bacterial illnesses.
Erythromycin is 1 such antibiotic that Indian doctors prescribe for things such as the common cold, cough and similar seasonal illnesses.
Due to this, I've developed a lot of food allergies and my gut is hosed.
So I was wondering if anyone has been able to successfully "reset" their gut and regrow the good bacterial and improve their immune system.
To add to the anec-data, conversely, I was refused antibiotics for years in the United States as a child, and it was only after switching physicians and careful monitoring that they realized my sinuses were severely infected.
I've been put through the gamut of antibiotics since, and noticed no change in digestion, temperament, allergies or any other adverse effects.
Don't get the downvotes. Sinus infections are a serious quality of life issue for some of us. I've had them drag on for weeks, then after a day of antibiotics, I feel like a new man.
Wow. Which antibiotic(s)? I've found that I don't generally get a noticeable therapeutic effect until near the end of the antibiotics course with sinusitis.
Maybe it wasn't a sinus infection? I hate the damn things because they're a lot like a cold and it seems like the recommendation is "if you're still miserable after 2 weeks, maybe you should go to a doctor". Then you discover that you could have been feeling better days ago...
Once you get a sinus infection once you are prone to them after.
What you need to watch out for is a clogged nostril, no air in the sinuses means an infection.
So that's the goal: Get air in there.
Try antihistamines, they work sometimes - even if you don't otherwise need them, if they clear your sinuses it's worth it.
You can also try "air hunger", if your body feels it needs extra air it will open the closed sinus. The best way to do this is to run up and down some stairs until it's fully open - then get lots of air in there and blow your nose.
It'll close right back up, but it will still help. Blowing your nose will also cause it to close, so hold off until it's fully open, even if you feel you need to blow your nose right away. (Or do it twice.)
Another method is to hold your breath till you need air really really badly (not just a bit, but really badly), this can also cause it to open, but is more unpleasant (but might be your only option if too weak to run).
A tip for both methods: Close the nostril that was open before with your finger and breath a lot through the one that used to be closed. You might be able to convince your body to switch which sinus it closes. This is good since you can alternate and get air in both. Doesn't always work though.
Definitely sinus infections. Been battling them for years.
I always complained to the docs that the antibiotics took too long to have a noticeable effect, to which more than one replied that there was limited blood flow to where the infection is, thus it took longer to clear.
Fecal transplants seem to have a high success rate of fixing some gut health issues[1]. I've never tried one, though.
I take probiotics on a daily basis, but research is much more scant for them[2]. That said, I notice a marked difference when I stop taking them for a few days.
Fecal transplants for the win, with my friend's mother-in-law. She had one a few weeks ago after suffering with digestive issues for a while and she's been great ever since.
Odd, my own anecdata is that I took Lactobasillus GG after antibiotics and saw great improvement. But I only seem to need to take it sporadically as a boost after first taking it daily for some weeks on the theory that this would help get a culture established and the rest would be occasional maintenance.
Obviously, it's not at all scientific, so I have no idea what might work for others.
Monolaurin is a natural antibiotic. It's on the GRAS (generally regarded as safe) list. My doctor suggested it to me. It won't impact healthy bacteria. It's found in coconuts (oil being the best source) and human breast milk... in other words it's one of the first things we have all consumed. It's OTC.
Ordinary probiotics such as the powdery capsules that is so prevalent aren't the most effective. They don't get retained as well. Liquid ones will stick to the small intestinal walls more easily. I implemented my own hack by eating something that is mucilaginous which sticks to the intestines. Then I take a capsule shortly afterwards. Seems to work well... for me.
This protocol worked for me after I hosed my gut microbiome which caused me to lose 80 lbs in 2 months. Take of it as you will.
Exercise is critically important, when you digestion is in turmoil as peristalsis likely gets impacted, at least it did for me. Peristalsis is the undulation of the esophagus, stomach, and intestines which pushes food forward. Exercise restarts this if it isn't functioning correctly.
It's important for keeping the healthy bacteria in the large intestines out of the small intestines. You don't want to cross the streams in this case as it can be very painful and even debilitating.
That's my recipe for a holistic reset and restoration of floral balance.
Eat Fermented foods, lots of fiber, more veg, occasional fatty meats. Eliminate sugar, reduce carbs, exercise.
Edit: I should probably add: Slowly introduce the fermented foods. If you're not used to them, might cause a few visits to the toilet if you have too much.
In theory. I can't remember the source but I've read that studies have shown some benefits while probiotics or yogurt are going through your system, but no lasting "colonization" of the bacteria. I have an irritable gut and I've never really noticed either yogurt or probiotics having an effect on that in either direction. (Antibiotics really screw it up for a while.)
It isn't possible to do a "full" reset without antibiotics (and even then it isn't 100% complete). The next best thing you can do is fasting. Fasting greatly restricts the food supply to the microbes in your gut (gut mucus production still feeds them to a degree), causing a fairly large die-off and shift in bacterial equilibrium. Anywhere between 4 and 7 days is a good target, and it doesn't have to be a strict fast, a little fruit juice or tea is fine.
It also might be easier to tolerate if you do a ketogenic (very high fat, moderate protein, very low carb) diet for a week or two before. That way you transition to burning exclusively fat, but you can still eat.
The not eating thing is actually pretty tolerable if you are already ketotic. But the transition to ketosis can be rough, and it's easier if you can eat while that happens.
One of the biggest things when you fast or do a ketogenic diet, you lose a lot of water (and with it, salt!), so maintaining electrolyte balance is huge. Your blood pressure will go down, and you'll feel awful if you don't add in some salt.
>Your gut is the site of constant turf wars. Hundreds of bacterial species—along with fungi, archaea and viruses—do battle daily, competing for resources. Some companies advocate for consuming more probiotics, live beneficial bacteria, to improve microbial communities in our gut, but more and more research supports the idea that the most powerful approach might be to better feed the good bacteria we already harbor. Their meal of choice? Fiber.
> A University of Illinois study shows that dietary fiber promotes a shift in the gut toward different types of beneficial bacteria. And the microbes that live in the gut, scientists now believe, can support a healthy gastrointestinal tract as well as affect our susceptibility to conditions as varied as type 2 diabetes, obesity, inflammatory bowel disease, colon cancer, and autoimmune disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis.
> As these microbes ferment fiber in the intestine, short-chain fatty acids and other metabolites are produced, resulting in many health benefits for the host, said Kelly Swanson, a U of I professor of animal sciences.
> The good news is that your initial Akkermansia levels are not your fate. People who started out with lower stores of Akkermansia had more after they followed the fiber-rich calorie-restricted diet. You can increase these bacterial populations by eating fiber, Cani’s research suggests, which acts as a prebiotic in the gut and has a beneficial effect on some bacteria.
Thanks Dan. I did a lot of research on fiber and ended up getting confused. For instance, does it matter what type of fiber the food has i.e. soluble vs insoluble?
Also, what fruits and vegetables are naturally rich in fiber. And of those, do you have to eat the skin to get the fiber? Finally, does cooking remove or reduce fiber content?
You want both types of fiber, but getting more of either is useful.
Many fruits and vegetables are rich in fiber and lists of fiber content are easy to google for. Some plants carry more fiber in their skins, some don't.
No matter what, you should intake more fiber. If you're an adult in the west, it's pretty likely that you're Not Getting Enough Fiber.
I went through my entire childhood without ever getting sick enough to need antibiotics. Then, I managed to catch strep in my early 20s, and went on a course of antibiotics to take care of it.
This is of course purely anecdotal, but the following year was pure hell from a digestive system standpoint, and looking back, I'm pretty sure it was tied to that course of antibiotics. Thankfully, things cleared up on their own, but I'd definitely be looking at probiotics if forced to go on antibiotics again for some reason.
Had similar experience. Had allergic reaction to penicillin first prescription, which triggered my full body to come out in itchy hives. Went through 3 courses of different antibiotics until I was fit enough to get out of bed. Had bad guts for a couple of years following, which was usually an alternation between diarrhea and constipation. Sometimes I'd sit on the throne several times a day and no movement, except mucus or eventually, blood, as I'd developed piles.
I went on a super high fibre diet, ate as much low calorie food as I could a day to keep things moving. Ate lots of fermented foods, mainly dairy, sauerkraut, cured meats. Eliminated sugar, took up cycling to work to get fit. I've not been ill since, my bowels are moving, and piles are gone. Not the most pleasant story, but thought I'd share it.
Various beans, sweet potatoes, yams, most root vegetables. Sweet potatoes became my favourite food when I realised you could use them as a sugar replacement for many kinds of baking, which made giving up the sugar so much easier.
As for % of soluble and insolubale, I've never really paid attention to it. I probably eat far more soluble fiber than insoluble though, if it helps.
"Mess up" sounds like a pretty loaded term to me. It sounds like "change" would be a more appropriate word, but the headline wouldn't be able to be skimmed over and then passed along to friends quite so easily.
But when a doctor prescribes a medication a useful question (no matter what the medication) is "What happens if I don't take it? What happens if we just watch and wait?"
Typically your labs and vitals will tell you if antibiotics are indicated. Things like increased WBC, lactic acid, hypotension, tachycardia etc. Blood cultures, too.
[1]: http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v66/n1/full/ejcn2011141a....
[2]: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7484/full/nature1...
[3]: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/prebiotics-tending-our-inner...