So you think women should feel okay working alongside someone who thinks they are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit?
It's not about safe spaces or offensive ideas. It's about enabling sexism and racism to freely propagate while telling minority groups that it isn't harmful despite past experience.
I was just pointing out the myopic hypocrisy of the complaint. Also, women are not a minority group, but I would say that if he's hired to do a job at a company he should be held to the same standards as any other employee. If he acts in ways that are outside the standards set by the company he should be fired. If the company rules don't allow for sexism, there will be none enabled. I think pre-screening employees based on their speech is a road to nowhere. I don't know where the racism part came from did I miss that in the article?
How so? People can have all the opinions they want but saying things such as "women are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit." isn't okay. Please convince me how that is employable behavior?
yes, precisely, which is why i brought up the paradox of tolerance. the parent comment was trying to say that if apple really wanted an "inclusive" workspace, they needed to be inclusive to sexist guy as well. the paradox of tolerance explains why that doesn't work in practice, and why apple was right to eject him.
Saying things like "women soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit." is more than just a difference of opinion. You cannot hold that opinion and be a fair leader.
Really?? Because when my coworkers and I meet someone like this we are all amazed and respectful. No offense, but I have a hard time believing that people become the worst versions of themselves because of your private behavior. Sorry to be so curt, but I’m tired of this sort of circle jerking going on in HN as of late. what you say may be true, but this sort of commentary is rampant lately.
Nobody turns into “the worst versions of themselves” but a common attitude is: why would you do these things when there are other kinds of people who do it for you as their job? And: you must have a lot more free time than I! No insults or derision, just surprise. It’s definitely different than 20 years ago. Back then everyone I hung out with used to tinker and had a closet full of tools you could borrow. Now it seems nobody’s into it. They even have a special “makers” label for people who like to build things as a hobby.
I used to really love HN for the good parts. Even back when I first started lurking, you would see waves of mean and incorrect comments, but it ebbed at times. These days the good stuff seems to be getting drowned out more and more. It feels like the polarization of discussion based social media is finally consuming this place like a cancer. I’ll always love the things I learn here, but I’m driven away from the discussions more and more.
I agree with you here. The majority of the people involved are trying to do something good. I’d wager the egomaniacs are a much smaller percentage than those who want to build better things.
Totally agree. I've largely quit commenting here at all because of it. I always thought gross polarization of topics would never come to HN, but here we are.
And the result is that the comments are really of very little use anymore. Time was they used to be enlightening.
Too bad Paul Graham doesn't give a rat's ass. He has the opportunity to create something beneficial to world society here but doesn't care to put in the money and thought to figure out how to make it work.
Holy shit HN is extra today. In this thread I counted maybe three responses that were meaningful. The rest were armchair quarterbacking from a lot of folks on how to do it better or how the product sucks without substantive feedback. What happened to HN? Nearly every thread is like this anymore. This quote is becoming more and more relevant here.
“You write your snide bullshit in a dark room because that's what the angry do these days”
In this spirit of this thread being completely useless to talk about the app itself I'm going to comment on your use of the word "extra" which is a decidedly recent usage for the word and, as a person born in the 20th century, I'm still getting my head around it. I love watching language evolve around me.
This is a funny word. I use it often and I'm finding "extra" difficult to explain.
My best take is that you take the general expectation or main thing about a situation -- Then when something is "extra," the magnitude of the expectation or thing is large. But usually there's an unusual spin involved too, only very slightly.
Example: My fiancee's makeup is extra. Makeup is typically accenting beauty and lightly applied, so when it's extra, it's overwhelmingly pretty and heavily applied.
In this context, Hacker News is known for mostly serious discussion and polite chains of building thoughts. The users are extra today by being dramatically serious and having impolite chains of volatile thoughts, or maybe even chains of echochambering.
That is pretty tough to wrap one's head around. I guess it requires reading into the subject from context and estimating the most likely characteristic being magnified.
Good find! "Logically" they're pretty close, "emotionally" they can be different.
If her makeup is "over the top" that's a bad thing, she's not dressed appropriately. If her makeup is "extra" it's meant to be encouraging -- it's "over the top" but the "inappropriate" change is welcomed.
"Extra" is sometimes used with that sarcastic element or downward twist (seen by OP) that chips away the welcoming bit. In that context, I think the usage is similar to "over the top".
It's not about safe spaces or offensive ideas. It's about enabling sexism and racism to freely propagate while telling minority groups that it isn't harmful despite past experience.