Removing ports. Zero upgrades possible - not even hard disk, memory.
In Apple’s case - repairing is near impossible for an average user. Even the fucking screws are non standard. They charge an arm and a leg for repairs.
I'm in Germany and the last four times I bought via thinkpad-forum.de. As the name says, it's a board for Thinkpads which includes a marketplace. From my experience, it's considerably cheaper than buying in shops or on Ebay, and the machines are usually described very well. People on the forum are mostly very knowledgeable and include information like battery cycles and stuff like that, so you know very well what you can expect. I would think similar forums exists for other countries as well.
In my case - and I've purchased 10 of these over the years - it's exclusively eBay. I check the description and photos carefully to see if there are any issues or defects. Only one time did I receive a laptop that was basically a dud - an X61 from many years ago.
I've also bought a couple old 32-bit models from e-waste recyclers who were open to me just grabbing them from out of a pile of to-be-disposed-of equipment.
Not sure where you're located, but if there is a MicroCenter nearby, the I recommend them as well. Sometimes they stock these in refurbished condition, and from my inspections of the laptops, they're in good shape. Only buy if you can look at first-hand at the store.
Sites like NewEgg, TigerDirect, and Amazon also have these, but the reviews generally don't seem favorable. One major difference is that with eBay, you can view multiple pictures of the exact laptop you will be buying. With those other sites, it's just a stock photo, and it seems like there's less quality control over what's grabbed from their warehouses.
Also it's worth mentioning that refurbished Dell Latitude and HP EliteBook laptops are comparable. There seems to be less demand for these than Lenovo ThinkPads, so often you can get better specs for the same price. In my experience, the Dell Latitude laptops have maintained greater backwards-compatibility with older docking stations. If you're into embedded development or ever want to connect to a headless server directly, then only Dell will give you that docking station with a serial port. The drawbacks is the TrackPoint on a ThinkPad is always guaranteed to be there, while it's an optional feature with Latitude and EliteBook, and even when it is there, it isn't as good as what IBM/Lenovo has engineered. Another drawback is refurbished Latitude laptops often have dedicated GPUs, which is great for Windows, but often a pain for Linux.
Fully agree to alternatives like Lattitudes and EliteBooks. While the "ecosystems" aren't as large as those of ThinkPads, i.e. no Wikis and such, the hardware manuals are available and of the same quality/usefulness.
I think there is a certain inertness in perception of available choices, quality-wise. While ThinkPads were great for a time, that Nimbus should have faded by now, but it mostly didn't, although it makes no sense.
The really good ones are so old by now, that they are almost useless, except for terminal use.
The newer ones are only so, so, and the really good ones make no sense economically imo.
Then there are the mentioned alternatives. But it depends on
geographic availability, time, i.e. when a large batch of refurbs enters the market, and so on. It has something of looking for flotsam on the beach :-)
Anyways, if you know hardware/what to do, then you can get great value with better options for periphery like docking stations, displays (ratio/resolution), simply more bang for the buck with about the same build quality as the ThinkPads of yore once had.
Prime expamples are small adaptors from the µSata for the 1.8" HDD to something more modern, for under 10USD a piece.
Oh, and compressed air for really cleaning, new thermal grease or pads.
If you do this more often you can save insane amounts of money by getting a small compressor instead buying canned air.
I've had all three of these brands and Thinkpad is the best.
I've had Dell Latitude machines where the hinges break after about three years and will no longer hold the screen up. I've had HP EliteBook machines where the soft rubber touchpad buttons wear through (I had one with a three-year warranty and they did fix it while it was in the warranty period.)
Meanwhile the Thinkpad machines have had no issues even after more than three years. They just look beat up (for instance there's a rubber-like coating on the lid that wears off.)
But the one that beats all of them is Apple. My MacBook Pro is now over five years old and it feels almost like new. I've never gotten this lifespan out of any Windows laptop.
> The drawbacks is the TrackPoint on a ThinkPad is always guaranteed to be there, while it's an optional feature with Latitude and EliteBook, and even when it is there, it isn't as good as what IBM/Lenovo has engineered.
My 5-year-old HP ZBook's trackpoint is abysmal. I stopped trying to use it about 2 months in, and after 2 years its top surface fell off and got lost. I didn't bother ordering a replacement.
I've bought a x230 on eBay for my partner, I installed Fedora on it and that has been fine, printers are working and most of the workflow is in a browser nowadays.
I've had to upgrade the keyboard once (2-3 keys fell off), but spare parts are available on eBay, and parts are very easily replaceable with an electronics screwdriver and a YouTube video, or by acquiring the Thinkpad service manual for more advanced procedures such as upgrading or replacing your screen (Which I've done to my Thinkpad X200 running Libreboot).
We are also considering a battery upgrade, which is still available on eBay even for older models.
My 9 cell battery is dead (30 mins runtime) but I can’t figure out what battery to buy. Original Lenovo are either too old to be good because they were made 5 years ago and sat on the shelf for years and the cells have degraded even if it’s technically new, or they’re just fake. I have zero trust in the safety, performance, and durability of the third party batteries sold on eBay or amazon.
eBay. Just wait for good listings. It's true that there is a non-negligible chance of getting burned, based on the general used laptop purchasing experience - but I've bought several and they've all worked as expected, pretty much.
This isn't due to any good qualities of the sellers. It's because ThinkPad makes damn good, sturdy laptops that are quite idiot-proof. I mean if you sit on your balcony and drop your laptop off the edge - that might destroy it. But it's going to take something on that level, and most people aren't that careless with electronics.
So you can be reasonably confident that anything ThinkPad you buy, if it isn't visibly damaged in the picture, will work as expected, in my (anecdotal) experience.
Thank you for responding. Is there any particular model that is better off than others, used? My usecase is programming - I don’t game, but I edit videos
I think the main thing you're looking for is 1) RAM - as much as you can get for your buck (might be worth lurking for a week to find out how much that is) 2) SSD.
If you get a high number on 1 and a checkmark on 2, it's almost guaranteed to be good for programming - realistically, for allowing you to run your browsers and something like GIMP and/or video editing.
I have a ThinkPad with 32 GB RAM and it takes a really heavy workload to pause my computer.
I frequently have several browsers & several browser windows open (say 6 windows total, mix of Chrome Brave and Firefox), and GIMP. No slowdowns noticeable (EDIT: some things do take a few seconds, like filters & exporting images from GIMP). Most importantly, using my window manager, I can switch from a full-screen browser to Emacs to GIMP instantaneously - not even a millisecond of noticeable delay.
Even many new computers purchased today can't beat that.
Also check for the screen. For quite a long time there was an Option for an abysmal 1366x768 screen. The same notebooks can be had with a proper HD screen, so get one with those.
You want to check whether the BIOS has a password on it. Most corporates use one but don't reset it at end of life and after the T420 you can't reset it without replacing the main board.
That's a really important point. To amplify on it, every ThinkPad has as many as three BIOS passwords: the hard drive password, the power on password, and the supervisor password. (Maybe even more than three, as individual hard drives/SSDs could have different passwords.)
The supervisor password is the one you care the most about.
You may get a seller who says "no BIOS password, boots up without a password." But the machine may still have a supervisor password, and if you don't have that you can't change the BIOS settings.
Always make sure there is no supervisor password, or the seller gives you the supervisor password.
eBay. I'm in Europe but there are some really good refurb sellers in UK and Germany. Got multiple x230 for ~100 GBP (~130 USD). i5, 8 GB RAM, pop in an SSD and you are good to go. Much better than anything else you would find in that price range.
I've bought around ten used thinkpads from Ebay over the years. Mostly, they arrived exactly as advertised. I only had to ship one back, which was annoying but I got a full refund.
Two of them had minor issues that were resolved to my satisfaction when the seller offered a partial refund of $5 or $20 (and me keeping the laptop).
All of them are still working perfectly today, including the T420 I bought for $100 in 2013 and the T400 I bought for $25 (with free shipping).
tl;dr: Ebay is a perfectly good place to buy used thinkpads. reddit.com/r/thinkpadsforsale is also good, especially if you want to buy an older one that some enthusiast already meticulously restored.
During my years as a Buddhist monk, we regularly did two 90 day silent retreats(Summer/winter) and two 45 days (fall/spring) a year. It’s mostly a survival type period where you slog through the days, until you have a week or so of a breakthrough, with hyper awareness and enlightenment-like insights. They all pass and it’s back to surviving the rest of the retreat.
Very cool to see an ex-monk here. I've had a regular 2hr/day practice for a decade now but no retreats yet. What kind of meditation did you practice? Would you say that you achieved some level of Awakening, and that any of these insights/benefits have improved the quality of your consciousness in a permanent sense?
Sorry for not responding earlier, I rarely check hacker news.
We did Seon meditation (Korea) which is a form of Koan practice (Hwadu).
I’ve had a permanent change in perspective and have a “base” that I return to whenever my spiritual practice seem to fade away. I don’t hold onto any particular insights because any realization I’ve had in the past are purely conceptual now.
I spent around 7 years at 30 mins/day - I was happy with it there, it was more of a casual thing for me at that time. Then I read some books, starting with The Mind Illuminated, and increased to 1hr/day over 4-5 months.
I find the act of effort or willpower for me is starting to meditate in the first place. Once I'm meditating, 60 mins doesn't require any more discipline than 30 mins, in fact it feels better.
Sorry, I don’t really check HN. Breakthroughs in terms of understanding Dharma, the unending compassion for all sentient beings, and the overcoming of my own previous delusions and desires. They don’t last beyond the retreat - my takeaway is the most important thing in dharma practice is constant effort. (Sudden Enlightenment, Gradual Cultivation). There were so many instances where I thought I had something, only to have it slip away.
Some breakthroughs I had on my two 10-day silent Vipassana retreats that I did...
Every individual has their own distinct perception of "me". Additionally, my perception of their perception of me is almost definitely incorrect and moreso a reflection of my thoughts. Conclusion : why waste energy trying to play roles based on how I think people see me when it's highly unlikely to be true? There's an interesting novel called "One, No one and One Hundred Thousand" by Luigi Pirandello that touches on this! I also have stopped trying to define the people around me by their physical appearance or habits because I want to encourage them to feel like they can be fluid around me.
Similar to above, I had this revelation that I was putting energy into so many irrational habits just to try to please others. Holidays are a good example. I refused to participate in these traditions that were stressing us all out every damn year. It took me quite a while to actually find a compromise here because I wasn't going to give some arrogant speech to my family that they had to abide by my way, so for quite a while I just attended but hardly participated in the circus. I also no longer just buy random presents for people simply for the reason that I don't want to hurt their feelings if I don't. I've started being more creative and personal with my gifts. It was a bumpy road, I definitely offended some, but it has made the whole experience so much more fulfilling and valuable.
Something else that was interesting is I noticed how vocal I am when I feel shitty as a way to comfort myself and feel secure. I got the shits for a few days during one of the retreats and I didn't want to break the silence unless it was really necessary. I remember thinking crazy stuff like "what if I pass out on the toilet from dehydration and everyone just thinks the bathroom is always occupied when they pass by and I die?" Haha, I hardly ever complain now to people when I feel ill. I usually just analyze the sensation.
Finally, it was just crazy to see my body through that lens of just feeling sensation. Like one day someone mentioned during a group meeting that they were feeling their gums and even their teeth. Next time I meditated I focused on them and was like "Holy shit!! How have I never felt these before?!" (note: it's not TOTALLY silent, you talk once a day briefly in group and have the option to ask questions after lunch to the meditator for your gender who is overseeing the retreat.)
I consider all of these revelations to have kind of become integral to who I am, so in that sense they're benefits have been permanent. I have dealt with Hashimoto's thyroiditis in the past so the energy I save from not doing irrational habits has made a huge difference. I still have some issues in that realm, but I am always learning and improving more about myself based off my new way of observing myself.
I will say one thing that's important though. After my meditation I actually became quite depressed. This was largely due to having gotten a parasite (giardia) from traveling. After I took the medicine, which seemingly nuked my microbiome off the face of the earth, I suffered an immense cognitive dissonance. Despite having had all these revelations on the "surface" of my mind, it took a much longer time for me to modify my habits, which carried a lot of momentum with them, especially situationally, e.g., how you act differently when you're with a friend you grew up with. It really depressed me to watch myself performing old habits that were at odds with this new mindset. This took me years to come to terms with and I still have periods of difficulty, but I'm finally closing the gap between my thoughts and my actions and I'm way more forgiving and understanding to myself. Hashimoto's definitely made this more difficult. Ayahuasca helped me out a ton with these difficulties.
By the way, the Vipassana retreats I did (started by S.N. Goenka) are totally free! You get a room and fed 3x a day. They're all over the world too. You can go to www.dhamma.org to sign up if you're interested. You can donate at the end if you'd like. I personally think aspects of the teaching are a bit antiquated, but overall I'm really glad I did them.
(edited this a decent amount for clarity, almost gave up on posting because it was getting hectic, but I think it's coherent enough!)
Yep. Those were precious resting days and I took full advantage of them. Perhaps the lesson was death is nothing to be feared if life is 24/7 intensive meditation retreats.
came back from a 49-day solitary retreat on march 19th.
an assortment of remarks:
by far, the most impactful experience of my life.
i was the least experienced meditator in the cohort with less than one year of formal experience.
10 days of agitation and discomfort (1-10)
5 days of nervousness and settling in (11-15 or so)
20 years of psychotherapy condensed into two weeks. meditation is garbage collection.
(days ~15-29)
profound clarity, presence, and peace. meditation is so much more (~29-49)
if you’re even remotely curious, please do yourself a favor and try a 10-day retreat.
a systems mindset can be supportive. stillness can be revealed through discipline and a systematic approach.
however, it is still ultimately necessary to surrender. beliefs are limiting. and the mind is not the end-all of the conscious experience. a leap of faith... non-negotiable.
long sits (3-hours+) are a game changer.
yoga is essential to prepare and maintain the body. but ultimately the body too must be dropped.
feel free to DM me or email me if you’d like to be directed to resources.
Also note, Amitabh is in his late seventies. I doubt he is interested in connections at his age.