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While I agree with you I would say that supply chain is upstream of chip-production.

The mining industry needed those money not Intel. It's the mining industry that's been neglected the last 20 years or so.

It will take at least 10 years to get anything resembling chinese supply chain in place.


The chip supply chain is a lot shorter and more concentrated than the mining supply chain. If you're thinking of "rare earth" metals in particular, it's probably better to focus on the refining rather than digging out of the ground. Between South America, West Africa, and Australia there are lots of mines for most of the metals, but only refining in China (because it has been highly subsidized by both monetary and regulatory means since the 90s). Silicon refining is similarly bottlenecked even though the high quality input material is mostly US sand.


Refining is dirty and dangerous so it has been pushed out. Used to work for a Canadian gold mine in Montana in the mid 90's. Most of the friends I graduated with went overseas for new mines or were Environmental engineers focused on cleaning up messes from the late 1800's early 1900's.


Yeah, lack of regulation is actually a pretty big subsidy for large scale "rare earth" metal refining.


What's a few inland lakes of acid residue toxic metal soup along with tailings piles classified as low level radioactive waste between friends though?

These are still being created today, not just as a practice from the 1800's.

It is the price of technology, better to address these as we progress rather than pushing them out of mind and sight and kicking the can down the road for future generations.


There's substantial wafer capacity in the US, from silane production, through polysilicon granule production and wafer making. There are several different wafer makers in the US with both 200mm and 300mm wafer capacity.

Some of the silane and polysilicon companies are US owned, but I don't think that any of the wafer makers are US headquartered anymore.


Isn't all high grade silicon derived from one place in the US?


Spruce Pine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spruce_Pine_Mining_District

It's the purest source, but lots of cheap PV poly is made from other stuff.


We HAVE have to focus on the rare earth part or you are basically just giving China the whole thing as they control more then 90% of refinement (and almost all of mining)


This is such a horrible approach to succeeding and will not do anything good for anyone.

Those factories will be mostly automated and so the idea that they will come with lots of jobs is misguided. On top of that to the extent this is a good idea the private market have no problem finding the money for that themselves.

The real issue is in the actual materials i.e. rare earth etc which is where the government completely dropped the ball the last 20 years.

8.5B going to the mining industry would make sense not to Intel.


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Only US-remote allowed ?


Why?


Because up till now many people that discount AI threats base that discount on a few assumptions like 'its just a parrot', 'it doesn't have any drives', 'it doesn't really understand', 'it isn't conscious', etc... ad-Infinium.

But the more different technology is plugged together to start resembling a brain, like a visual cortex, a speech center, motor controls, etc...

At some point the distinction between carbon based life and silicon becomes meaningless vanishes. All the arguments or proofs that humans are conscious would equally prove AI is conscious. Or that neither truly are. Proving an AI is not conscious would also prove humans aren't.

And of course, Terminators.


Faktory | Frontend, Full Stack | Remote or On-site | US (New York, Miami) | Full-time Faktory is a flexible data discovery, task automation and content transformation platform. We allow users to build custom workflows, applications, proprietary search functionality by combining public and private data, APIs, language models, and much much more all using natural language.

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Great explanation!

This also fixes a misconception that resources is something we just find and use.

Resources are properties of nature we discover.

There are lack of resources, only lack of knowledge to help discover how we turn things into resources.


It takes a lot of energy to create matter...


ChatGPT isn't doing the scraping, humans are. And humans are using computers to both read the article and create content or to scrape it.

So not it's not a false equivalence.


There’s a reason scraping is a legally grey area.

> Web scraping is legal, US appeals court reaffirms

First, the case is not closed. [0]

Second, to draw an analogy, you can use scraping in the same way you can use a computer: for legal purposes. That is, you cannot use scraping to violate copyright, just as you cannot use a computer to violate copyright.

The following being my conjecture (IANAL), there is fair use and there is copyright violation, and scraping can be used for either—it does not automatically make you a criminal, but neither is it automatically OK. If what you do is demonstrably fair use presumably you’d be fine; but OpenAI with its products cannot prove fair use in principle (and arguably the use stops being fair already at the point where it compiles works with intent to profit).

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31079231


It seems the issue with scraping as it pertains to copyright issues isn't the scraping, any more than buying a book to sell off photocopies of it cheaply doesn't indicate that there is a problem with buying books. The issue is the copying, and more importantly, the distribution of those copies.

Fair use of course being the exception.

Now, as for accessing things like credentials that get left in unsecured AWS buckets is the bigger area where courts are less likely to recognize the legality of scraping. Never mind the fact that these people literally published their private data on a globally accessible platforms in a public fashion. I'm not a lawyer but I've seen reports of this leaning both directions in court, and yes, I've seen wget listed as a "hacker tool."

This is what happens when feelings matter more to the legal system than principles.

And before it's brought up, I may as well point out that no, I don't condone the actual USE of obviously private credentials found in an AWS bucket any more than I condone the use of a credit card that one may find on the sidewalk. Both are clearly in the public sphere, unprotected, but for both there is a pretty good expectation that someone put it there by accident, and that it's not YOUR credential to use.

Basically, getting back to the OP, ChatGPT hasn't done anything I've seen that'd constitute copyright infringement -- fair use seems to apply fairly well. As for the ad-supported model, adblockers did this all first. If you wanted to stop anything accessing your site that didn't view ads, there are solutions out there to achieve this. Don't be surprised when it chases away a good amount of traffic though -- you're likely serving up ad-supported content because it's not content you expected your users to pay for to begin with.


Yes but that's a technical issue. I took the parent as making a philosophical point and responded in that spirit.


Wouldn’t it be nice if the people on these forums were not ignorant of both philosophy or the legal system before diving into incoherent conversations about both at the same time where the main thrust is the emotions they have about these tools?


One can dream.


yup


How is it not scraping? There's no other way to get all that data for training a model without scraping.


It's scraping both when humans do it and when the ChatGPT team do it, but that wasn't the point the parent made. He made a moral/philosophical point which is what i responded to.


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