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Isn’t that presumably the point of the Vietnamese government whenever they set new requirements?

To make it harder for people who dont care about Vietnam to do business.


If googlers dont have an internal org chart they can check, then how do they verify who is on what team?

Something doesnt add up. Because that seems like a bare minimum to collaborate at all.


> Because that seems like a bare minimum to collaborate at all.

Now you're getting a clue why Google had like 3-4 competing communication tools at some point lol


Bring back Google Wave!

They could have been Slack if they didn't transmogrify it into a social media platform (Google+) and then throw out the baby with the bathwater when it failed.


I’m talking about something much more fundamental, the entire company would pretty much implode within 24 hours (or at most a week) if they couldnt verify who is who.

So it clearly cant be the case.


You're really giving credit in the wrong areas. Google is impressive for its ability to exist beyond the point of dysfunction. It's simply not the case that any Googler would need to verify the identity of any other any more than it is necessary for every server to verify the identity of every other. They only need to verify the identify of the tiny subset they are communicating with at any given time. This doesn't mean everyone has access to a coherent org chart, or that one even exists.


And how do they verify those of the subset they are in communication with?

Ask their managers? But then how do their managers verify?


> Ask their managers? But then how do their managers verify?

It's a hierarchical org chart. If you're really not sure ask Sundar.

It's likely any Googler can verify the identity of any other by looking up their username but it's unlikely that the same tool would do something like tell you how the YouTube recommendation algorithm works or who would know that.

They will know the names of frequent collaborators and something about the scope of relevant work but it's not like everyone at Google needs intimate knowledge of every workstream. At that scale it's unlikely anyone has the full picture.


Okay so we agree Google has a full org chart then somewhere.


We agree an org chart of some kind probably exists. We disagree on the capabilities. For example I am not confident that it has a concept of a team and if it does that a team would map to a product or feature.


You seem confused, I never claimed it would have such attached concepts? just a name and superior/subordinate relations

> If googlers dont have an internal org

> chart they can check, then how do they

> verify who is on what team?

Having worked at some very large companies, none of which published org charts, it's done by word of mouth and making informed guesses.

"Alice, I saw you were the last editor of this document. Are you still on that team, or can you point me to the best PoC?"


Going from person to team is fairly easy, but going from team to person is hard. That is, you can often confirm a person is a member of a particular team or organization just by looking up their email address, but the reverse direction of finding the right point of contact for a particular team or organization can be difficult.

Searching for the tree root starting from a tree leaf is easy, but searching for the right leaf starting from the root takes a lot more effort.


Finding the correct team seems to be all that’s needed?


Google presumably has hundreds of support teams.

Aside from the huge array of stuff they've built in house, the "List of mergers and acquisitions by Alphabet" wikipedia page has 264 entries. Some of those bought other companies.


>If googlers dont have an internal org chart they can check, then how do they verify who is on what team?

You really think some guy in some offshore office for low pay, with his boss hounding at him about his KPIs, is going to go out of his way to bother with this?


It still seems a bit too simplistic… no one imagined that Google could behave less than 100% virtuously in the future? Really?


I don’t think there’s anything virtuous or non-virtuous about it. The internet is a big place and search engines aren’t optimized to produce results according to singular sites’ idiosyncrasies.

The obvious flaw in Stack Overflow’s bias toward closing new questions is that over time the best pages are also the oldest and most stale. They even locked questions with enough answers to prevent new content from being added, guaranteeing that they became stale.

Yet at the same time they allowed new questions to be asked and indexed by search engines, but didn’t allow new answers to that new content. So the freshest and most recent content was also the worst.

I don’t see this as a “Google bad” moment. It’s a failure of Stack Overflow in clinging to their oldest content and building rules that made all new posts frustrating and unhelpful.


Agreed, think we're getting warmer.


It worked that way for its first ten plus years. Why would it change? Why/How could you plan for an unknown future. Personally I’m horrible at predicting the future, so I don’t blame them.


It seems nonsensical then?

You would have to pretend non-linear negative externalities don’t exist, or can be waved away with some magic wand.


Don’t reduce it to the simplest, weakest version. Pure, untrammeled libertarianism has its weaknesses, but “unless it hurts others directly, you should be allowed to do what you like with yourself” isn’t a bad starting point.


It does depend on how specific the thing is. Spiders in general maybe, but for a particular type of spider seems to have close to nil possibility.


But if, evolutionarily, there are only 20 common recurring threats that you need to fear (but each comes at some kind of cost, like you won't hunt in an area that would otherwise provide food), it would make sense to pass on those fears in a generational way. So the possible things come from a preset list that has evolved over millions of years, that recur over and over but only in specific times and places.


Honestly it seems like nobody under this entire post has actually fully read the TOS for any Apple service.

I have once for iCloud... and the impression I got was that they must think close to 100% of the population on Earth are potential scoundrels for them to put in so many clauses and escape hatches.

I don’t think it’s possible to fully read any modern TOS from a bigco and not get an inkling of that.

The real issue is why are people signing up to TOS they haven’t fully read, and if they have… why are they signing up for something that directly spells out they are possible scoundrels who need to be dominated.

It’s like some kind of mass self humilitation ritual.


At Apple’s scale, the likelihood of someone pulling any weird or shady nonsense that can be imagined is not potential, it’s eventual.


Wasn’t them finally implementing competent (if overly annoying) iCloud MFA the result of this kind of thing, with social engineering/photo leaks from celebrities or something?

It takes a public scandal, and all.


Even so, on the record subordinating yourself to a superior entity by definition… must turn the end user into an inferior.

A direct, on the record, formal agreement to be an inferior.

And then people wonder why they get humilitated and mistreated in complex edge cases.


Unless you live in a jurisdiction that is known to have very generous court judgements that fully compensate all expenses occured… wouldn’t this be true for literally every dispute you have above a certain threshold?

That’s simply the actual cost of living in your jurisdiction.

I don’t think any large retailer or bank on Earth guarantees there will be a viable escalation pathway for all possible combination of scenarios either.

Maybe a very high end private bank but even that’s iffy.


My parents had their account with Deutsche Bank private bankers. They had moved overseas and sold their house in the 90s and were living off the proceeds. Everyone got lucky that they bought their house in a big city in the 1960s. Since they didn't spend too much money, the capital accumulated for a while. It could have gone the way of Detroit but went the other way. When they passed away, we inherited the money and bought a house in the suburbs. It wasn't a huge amount of money, but it changed our lives, no question.

So, when my mom passed, our family had to deal with DB. I have never, ever hand such a bad experience with a bank. The bank overseas was so courteous and efficient that I asked if I could open a bank account with them but I couldn't since I don't live in the country, just a frequent visitor. The IRS and government were easy. The will was as easy as it gets. Do things by the book, you'll be fine.

The NY DB office, to which I would have to go frequently and sit in some luxurious waiting room with nice art, was insane. My lawyer and accountant could not understand how they could repeatedly ask for the same information, deny they had received it, ask for information that literally the US government does not give out to anyone and on and on and on. And no there was nothing shady or shifty about my parents' lives. My lawyer started sending meaner and meaner letters to them, the kind that talk about making my client whole and litigation.

And yet, a few years later it turned out that same bank was often in the news for, among other things catering to Jeffrey Epstein. Who knows, maybe he spent his last hours complaining about them too. I could only hope he had that experience to add to his all-too-brief punishment. Actually, I have often wondered if we got raked over the coals because they had genuinely fishy clients and thus all the clients, especially the ones overseas, were on some kind of government watch list.


This seems a bit incoherent, there must be a real reason for them to start thinking the “filth of others” has some basis in reality…

It couldn’t have arisen just randomly or on a lark.


The “filth of others” can be described in as many ways as a human might use to justify their elevation of one tribe over the degradation of another.

Look at it critically - whenever you encounter a totalitarian-authoritarian personality bloviating about “those people over there” (others), its usually based on the totalitarian mechanism of ‘avoiding affinity with attributes considered unsavoury’ (filth).

This concept has other applications. If you have two villages, separated perhaps by a near-insurmountable mountain or lake, or if one of those villages raises cows while the other raises goats - this is usually the basis of the formation of a new dialect, accent, or indeed entirely new language. However, when civilization occurs and those two villages merge into a broader community, that language changes to become a unity.

This is observable at an individual level, too. Any unacknowledged or under-recognized similarities/identities/differences between two or more entities will inevitably be used to justify segregation of those entities. The solution, as always, is to identify similarities/identities/differences in a cohesive manner - this is anathema to the totalitarian-authoritarian personality, who is usually pretty stubborn about enforcing, in totality, those under-acknowledged facets.


I don’t see how this addresses the issue of there being an underlying real reason?

Of course the reason then subsquently can be inflated, conflated, mixed together strangely, contorted, etc… I’m not doubting that.


The underlying reason is a lack of cultural fluidity, or in other words, an over-abundance of cultural rigidity, which manifests as a desire to be free of other cultures.

The most effective antidote to totalitarian-authoritarianism is a one-way ticket to somewhere distant.

German villages, as comfortable as they are, don’t really promote this antidote.


> The underlying reason is a lack of cultural fluidity, or in other words, an over-abundance of cultural rigidity

And how do you know this? What’s the actual argument for why that must the case?


The abundance of evidence that humans will fight to death to be the clean ones.


Did you intend to reply to a different comment?

This doesn’t seem relevant to making an argument for the claims in the quoted text.


Did they really change a meaningful word like that after publication without an edit note…?


This has definitely happened before with e.g. the o1 release. I will sometimes use the Wayback Machine to verify changes that have been made.


Wow sounds pretty shady then.


Eh, I'm no shill but their marketing copy isn't exactly the New York Times. They're given some license to respond to critical feedback in a manner that makes the statements more accurate without the same expectations of being objective journalism of record.


Yes, but they should clearly mark updates. That would be professional.


It seems to be missing “You design, we will provide guaranteed counselling”.


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