Those landscape photos are a crappy hypnotic effort meant to try and dissociate Microsoft from the feeling most people have when they have to login on a Monday Morning.
Still, complaining about something you can only possibly see when you're not using the computer is such a minor thing, whether you like it or not, I cant find myself to care in any amount.
Completely different things. Self driving cars need to actually deal with vision and fuzzy real time response. Air traffic is a planning and scheduling task with known constraints and (in most cases) known minutes ahead. Comparing their risk is a complete apples and oranges situation.
Than again, ATC needs to deal with people talking on the radio, so the current system has a really long way to go to be completely automated.
> Self driving cars need to actually deal with vision and fuzzy real time response. Air traffic is a planning and scheduling task with known constraints and (in most cases) known minutes ahead.
It's funny to read all of these confident comments claiming ATC is easily automated from people who obviously don't understand what ATC entails.
ATC isn't just planning and scheduling. There is a lot of quick thinking and communication with pilots. You might only be thinking of the everything-goes-perfectly-right case, but the real value of having trained ATC operators is handling all of the edge cases and making quick decisions under high pressure scenarios that may not have even been represented in the training set.
ATC is also partially a visual job. Did you ever notice that there's literally a tower at the airport for air traffic control people? The people in this tower will manage things like traffic on the ground and immediate airspace around the tower. Visual inputs and critical thinking skills are very necessary.
There are a lot of assumptions that people outside of aviation make - it reminds me of that “falsehoods programmers believe about dates and time” article that gets passed around from time to time. Off the top of my head, some easily believable falsehoods:
1. The system knows where every plane is going
2. Every plane is talking to ATC
3. Every plane that is currently taking to ATC will be reachable a minute from now
4. If you issue a plane an instruction, it will follow it
5. The planes want to go the most direct route to the destination (winds aloft can often mean direct is slower and more expensive than a more circuitous route)
6. If a plane has an emergency, they will declare an emergency.
7. Planes that are not currently talking to ATC will not fly into the regions where they are supposed to be talking to ATC
8. Planes that are not talking to ATC will not just show up and land at the airport. This happens for a variety of reasons.
9. All planes have working transponders
10. All planes are traveling from one airport and landing (once) at another.
It feels like a tractable problem from the outside, but the variety of issues ATC solves every day is staggering.
11. Planes have radios that can select all ten digits.
Someone's radio broke where they couldn't enter '2' into it, so we had to find frequencies along their path that they could use and where ATC could relay.
You are thinking about automating the existing system, but the current system is entirely defined by the constraint that it must be operated by humans on radios. When this constraint can be removed so are its specific edge cases. When your phone communicates with the cell tower a frequency also must be assigned, and no buttons have to be pressed to do it.
Opposing Bases a few weeks ago had feedback from someone who had a button on their transponder that didn’t work and needed a code without any 5’s in it. Good luck getting _that_ through to auto-ATC.
Can emit all bytes except for 00000101 isn't really the type of problem you see in a digital system. And even if it were, it's pretty simple.
plane 1 > assign code 4563
plane 2 > reject
plane 1 > assign code 0827
plane 2 > accept
Also assigning short codes like that isn't something likely to be necessary in an automated protocol like this. Why not just have every message sent between 2 planes include a sender_id: UUID header?
Because now we’re talking about putting deeply integrated equipment in every plane. It’s a certification and cost nightmare.
This is not a system where you get to do clean slate greenfield development. Whatever you do must work for the lowest common denominator. ATC is a fairly cheap societal expense compared to developing, certifying, installing, and maintaining systems with the level of integration you want in hundreds of thousands of diverse planes.
The US has about 200,000 general aviation planes. You can’t ignore them, and you can’t just ban GA because that’s your pipeline for getting commercial pilots.
Worth noting in your “if the system was automated”: There are aircraft permanently without electrical systems. There are aircraft temporarily without electrical systems.
This is no different than the current ATC system. A plane or tower can lose power too. It's not particularly hard for the software to detect a plane that isn't in communication with the rest of the swarm / not obeying commands, assign it highest priority and GTFO of its way. The key is to have the software running on all planes (which you can do with commercial aviation) rather than rely on a centralized system with a single point of failure.
> The key is to have the software running on all planes
Yeeeeah… we just went through the ADS-B mandate. It took a decade or more, cost pilots thousands and thousands of dollars, still doesn’t have 100% compliance, and does weird stuff sometimes. And this was orders of magnitude easier than any kind of two way system.
Respectfully, do you have any time in the front seat of an aircraft or a tower/TRACON position?
I have none. Did the engineers who developed autopilots start out as pilots? Did the people who invented email start out delivering mail for the post office? The point is that the new system doesn't have to look like the old system. Automating ATC isn't going to be the current ATC system, just done by computer. That makes about as much sense as designing driverless cars with a humanoid robot as driver.
> read all of these confident comments claiming ATC is easily automated
You responded to the wrong comment then. I did not say in any place it would be easy. Just that they're very different class of problems. Nether did I say it's only planning and scheduling. Even the vision part is very different than cars. (Static in known environment vs dynamic in entirely random one)
You're arguing against others or a straw man here.
Also remember that ATC is vital for emergency situations. "Your distress call is important to us, please continue screaming into the void and hopefully a miracle happens.
Should've phrased it way better, that's true. It's a very different kind of vision when you do environment mapping and distance measuring -vs- when you do object tracking from a static location. Yes you need vision processing, but at a much higher resolution (sky is huge, planes are small) and much lower complexity. (moving objects between frames are easier to track) My point is that it's not comparable to what the cars use as vision.
It's always hilarious to see ignorant developers on HN claiming that real world engineering problems are easy to solve based on zero actual knowledge or experience. This kind of comment is really peak HN.
An autopilot for airplanes is only "easy" until something goes wrong. For example, one failure mode for autopilots is that if the aircraft gets progressively more and more out of trim the autopilot will automatically compensate until it hits its design limit. Then it suddenly disengages, leaving the human pilots in manual control of a nearly uncontrollable aircraft. If you talk to an actual flight control engineer they can give you plenty more examples of why building a safe autopilot is quite hard.
Those comments are coming from people whose aviation "knowledge" was learned by playing Ace Combat on Xbox and watching Snakes on a Plane. Totally disconnected from reality.
That's a nice strawman you're creating there. In some airspace classes and flight regimes an aircraft has more variables, especially when you account for possible failures. If an aircraft has a mechanical failure it can't just pull over and stop.
There are about 46000 aircraft registered in the USA, plus more that sometimes fly in from foreign countries. Many aircraft were manufactured decades ago by companies that no longer exist so major upgrades aren't economically practical.
Airplane autopilot is more like the cruise control feature in your car, not a self-driving computer that does everything for the pilots while they sit back.
Car autopilot and airplane autopilot don't share much in common other than the word "autopilot"
Yes, and that's what the FAA NextGen program has been doing incrementally since 2003. There are probably ways to accelerate it but it seems like most of the "automate ATC advocates" are simply ignorant and haven't done their homework.
Airplane autopilots are basically just cruise control.
You still have a human in the loop double checking everything constantly and stepping in as soon as something isn’t routine (which is actually quite frequently).
On a side note, I will use this thread to air out my biggest pet peeve - air travel isn't in fact safer than car travel. Well, it is, per mile, but that's cheating because planes travel so fast. Obviously a 3 hour commercial flight is safer than 40 hours of driving. But cars are still safer per journey.
So, if you drive to the airport and get on a flight, your car ride wasn't actually more dangerous than your flight as the saying goes. The only road-based transportion more dangerous than a plane is the bicycle.
Commercial air travel has a passenger fatality on something like one in ten million flights [0], and less than that on newer aircraft.
Automobile travel in the US has 1-2 fatalities per 100M miles. [1]
So maybe you are technically correct. Barely. And it has nothing to do with airplanes being fast — planes only need to go a few tens of miles per trip to be significantly safer than cars, and plane trips are a lot longer than that.
All I'm saying is: if you drive to the airport and get on a flight, the drive to the airport wasn't more dangerous than your flight on the plane.
This is intuitive and obvious and yet is somehow beaten out of us by "quick facts" that we accept blindly touting commercial aviation as some kind of miracle. It's still a miracle but not quite to the degree that people believe. Hurtling through the sky at 0.8 Mach in a metal tube will always be more dangerous than rolling down a highway in a metal cage at 70 mph.
None of the people who responded to me yet have refuted this.
> In 2022, the fatality rate for people traveling by air was .003 deaths per 100 million miles traveled. The death rate people in passenger cars and trucks on US highways was 0.57 per 100 million miles.
Planes travel about 10x-20x faster than cars, but that’s still 0.06 vs 0.57. Seems like quite a difference. Which numbers are you using?
Is the purpose of travel to go from one place to another or to spend time?
If it’s to go from one place to another, referencing statistics to per-mile seems to make more sense and, to me, it’s in no way “cheating because planes travel so fast”.
But your choice of destination changes because air travel is available to you. You wouldn't go to a destination thousands of miles away, as often, if it weren't possible to fly there.
OK there might be some confusion here on what's meant by "roofer." Roofers as I have always seen the term used means the crew that puts the shingles on.
The roof structure is built by carpenters or framers. Or more likely just delivered as pre-built trusses which are placed on top of the walls.
For a roof built on-site, a speed-square or framing square will include markings for common roofing cuts, hip/valley cuts, etc. You have to know how to use them but you don't really need to understand the underlying trigonometry.
I'd say the API can take up to half a minute to propagate, so API updates every minute is running up against their own performance. If you're a free customer, they may block you after a while, but first they'd have to notice you, and I doubt one update per minute would bother them.
Fomenting nativist rage was exactly why Russia created the migrant crisis by destabilizing Syria. Im guessing you have a biased corporate media environment like America, too?
Probably true for social media bubbles. For traditional media, not really. E.g. the largest newspaper gets regular accusations of taking sides (in their comments section), but the complaints seem to come from all sides equally. Except for the nationalist party, but over 80% of us probably thinks they have earned the critique they get.
The country originally had a program called Henkinen Maanpuolustus. By end of the 1970s influence of MIT & early FUNET had paved a way for the web however. Roughly 15 years later Google + biggest media would economically outcompete all Finnish local & independent media. By 2005 no major competitor for Google had emerged so at least 1995-2005 there only ever was a digital ad monopoly in Finland.
Here is an YLE-news article from as corrected by Claude that caught my eye & touches Syria, from last year:
"December 21, 2024
Works Cited
Visala, Hanna. "Analyysi: Erikoisinta Putinin neljän tunnin showssa oli paljastus, kenen kanssa hän mieluusti joisi teetä." YLE, 19 Dec. 2024, yle.fi/a/74-20132517.
"Results of the Year with Vladimir Putin." President of Russia, 19 Dec. 2024, en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/75909.
Note on Sources and Methodology
This analysis examines two primary sources: Hanna Visala's article published by YLE (Finnish Broadcasting Company) and the official transcript from the Kremlin website. All translations from Finnish to English are by the author, with original Finnish text provided for verification. In accordance with Journalistin ohjeet (The Guidelines for Journalists), particular attention has been paid to accuracy in source attribution and fact-checking (JSN Guidelines 7, 9, and 10).
Executive Summary
This analysis examines YLE's December 19, 2024 coverage of Russian President Vladimir Putin's annual year-end press conference against the official transcript. Our investigation reveals significant discrepancies between the reporting and source material, raising important questions about journalistic practices in covering complex geopolitical events.
Direct quotations from both sources
Context preservation
Attribution accuracy
Supporting evidence
Omission patterns
Key Findings
1. Unverified Attribution
YLE's most significant claim lacks source verification:
YLE's text:
"Putin myös sanoi, että jos voisi palata ajassa taaksepäin, hän olisi aloittanut sodan jo aiemmin."
[Translation: "Putin also said that if he could go back in time, he would have started the war earlier."]
This statement appears nowhere in the official transcript, raising serious concerns about attribution standards.
2. The Kursk Situation
YLE's portrayal:
"Kysymys siitä, milloin Kurskin alue 'vapautetaan Ukrainan joukoista', sai Putinin rykimään hermostuneesti. Putin vastasi, että 'potkimme heidät varmasti ulos', mutta ei sanonut tarkkoja päivämääriä."
[Translation: "Question about when the Kursk area would be 'liberated from Ukrainian forces' made Putin cough nervously. Putin answered that 'we will definitely kick them out' but didn't give exact dates."]
Official Transcript:
"We will undoubtedly drive them out. There is no alternative. Concerning a precise date – I am afraid I cannot specify one at this moment. I have an understanding of the plans, which are regularly reported to me. However, it is not possible to declare a specific date. The troops can hear me now; if I were to specify a date, they would go to great lengths to meet it, potentially disregarding casualties. We cannot allow that."
The transcript reveals a strategic explanation for withholding dates, contrasting with YLE's interpretation of nervousness.
3. Economic Coverage
YLE's coverage largely omits substantial economic discussions present in the transcript.
Official Transcript's Economic Data:
"Last year Russia increased its GDP by 3.6 percent, and this year the economy is expected to grow by 3.9 percent, or possibly even four percent... What this means is that our economy will have grown by eight percent over the past two years... Unemployment is at its all-time low of 2.3 percent. We have not experienced anything like this before."
This omission significantly affects readers' understanding of the complete context.
4. North Korea Claims
YLE's assertion:
"Venäjän joukkojen rinnalla taistelevista Pohjois-Korean joukoista Putin ei maininnut sanaakaan. Ukrainan hyökkäys Kurskiin ja Pohjois-Korean joukkoihin tukeutuminen olivat selvästi odottamaton takaisku Putinin suunnitelmassa."
[Translation: "Putin didn't say a word about North Korean troops fighting alongside Russian forces. Ukraine's attack on Kursk and reliance on North Korean troops were clearly an unexpected setback in Putin's plan."]
The transcript shows no context requiring discussion of foreign troops, instead detailing specific Russian units:
"Fighting alongside them are the 810th Marine Brigade of the Black Sea Fleet, the 76th and 106th divisions of the Airborne Troops, and motorised infantry of the Sever Group."
5. Syria Coverage
YLE's characterization:
"Toinen kiusallinen aihe Putinille oli selvästi Syyria. Hän joutui vastaamaan yhdysvaltalaisen NBC-tv-kanavan kysymykseen Syyriassa 12 vuotta sitten kadonneen amerikkalaisen toimittajan kohtalosta. Putin yski kysymyksen päälle ja pyysi esittämään sen uudelleen."
[Translation: "Another uncomfortable topic for Putin was clearly Syria. He had to answer NBC's question about the fate of an American journalist who disappeared in Syria 12 years ago. Putin coughed over the question and asked for it to be repeated."]
Official Transcript:
"Frankly, I have not met with President Bashar al-Assad after his arrival in Moscow. But I plan to do it and will certainly talk to him... I promise that I will definitely ask him this question just like we can forward this question to the people who are controlling the situation on the ground in Syria today."
6. Military Situation Assessment
YLE's brief characterization:
"Putin näytti hyväkuntoiselta ja esiintyi varmasti vuosittaisessa tv-spektaakkelissaan. Hän kehui Venäjän taloutta – kuten aina – ja ylisti joukkojensa voittoja Ukrainassa."
[Translation: "Putin appeared healthy and confident in his annual TV spectacle. He praised Russia's economy - as always - and praised his troops' victories in Ukraine."]
Official Transcript's detailed military assessment:
"The combat readiness of the Russian Armed Forces is the highest in the world today. I assure you it is the highest... As far as I know, the number of armoured vehicles destroyed in the Kursk Region has now exceeded the number of vehicles destroyed on the entire line of contact last year – in any case, these are comparable figures."
Clear separation of fact and analysis
Multiple perspective consideration
Transparent reasoning for interpretations
Conclusion
This analysis reveals significant divergences between YLE's coverage and the primary source material. While editorial choices are necessary in news coverage, the extent of these divergences raises concerns about accurate public information dissemination. The findings suggest a need for more rigorous adherence to journalistic standards in complex geopolitical coverage.
Methodology Note: This analysis compared the complete Finnish language YLE article (Visala, YLE, 19.12.2024) with the official English language transcript from the Kremlin website (President of Russia, 19.12.2024). All translations of Finnish text were verified by native speakers. The analysis focused on verifiable content comparison rather than subjective interpretation."
Claude was given the transcript from Kremlin's site. YLE news is funded by Finland & supposed to not to be heavily biased, officially speaking.
Its not technically DEI , but if you tried to build a dam in the US some tribe would object it because (of course) that was the site of a sacred burial ground, or it would (allegedly) impact some specific animal that is sacred to them. Then CNN would rail about how the eminent domain "disproportionately affects PoC" and how "far-right congressman Badman voted to cut govbux to the poor women and children affected by this horrible infrastructure project".
Of course the energy company would only do it with liberal corporate welfare, awarded only on the condition of guaranteed DEI positions or strong preference toward subcontractors that were "women-owned " or Black owned.
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